BEF 1914: Attrition of Officers' Experience

[Guest]

Quote:

I had always wondered why there had to be 4 majors, 4-6 captains and twice as many subalterns in a BB. It does, even today, seems a bit bloated. I think this one factor would explain the high rates.

Not so. The War Establishment demanded only a single major as [variously] "senior major" or "second in command".

All the company commander posts were fluid complemented major/captain and it was not unknown for a battalion, even in August 1914, to have just the single major. If you SEARCH you should find extensive coverage of this topic herein.

The hard numbers might suggest 3 majors per battalion (on average) was a physical impossibility. While some may have had three among the 'original' battalions of the Old Contemptibles, it was the exception not the rule. Here are the numbers for the Regular infantry 1914 Star medal Roll

Lt Col.........137

Maj.............345

Capt........1,548

Lt............1,612

2 Lt.........1,556

Total.......5,198*

Before adjusting for reductions in Majors and Captains for Brigade Staffs and other admin roles such as billeting officers, MLOs etc, these proportions translate (on average) to one Lt Col, two Majors, nine Captains, nine Lts and nine 2nd Lts per battalion. This is consistent with the idea that (on average) one Coy commander was a Major and the other Major was the 2IC or 'Senior Major'.

* note this excludes QMs who held honorary ranks of Lt to Maj

[Drew-1918]

Hello there,

As part of my ongoing look at the 4th Bn Royal Fusiliers I have managed to produce the following table. Hope it is of help.

Originally included in the table above:

The 1914 Star Roll shows 35 Officers disembarking on the 13.8.14. I am not entirely sure this is correct, as there is some evidence that some of them disembarked a bit later, and/or that some of them were "Attached". However, I decided to analyse them as they appear, at least for now. Later research showed that 27-31 Officers arrived on the 13.8.14-14.8.14. The other 4 Officers were actually later arrivals that had been recorded as 13.8.14 on the 1914 Star Roll.

Fatalities seem to be around 54.3%. We reach a figure of 60% 'permanently out of action' when the POWs are added. 48.6% of the 35 Officers appear to have been wounded in action at some point (this figure includes some of those who subsequently became a fatality or POW). 88.6 % appear to have become casualties. Fatalities amongst the original 31 Officers= 61.3%. If you add POWs to the fatalities, you get a figure of 67.8%. Another 19.4% were wounded in action. 12/31 Officers were wounded at some point (including some who subsequently became fatalities). 87.2% were casualties at some point (93.7% if you include the two Officers who were sick at some point).

Of those officers who landed on 13th August, none seem to have made it through unscathed. The Kaipara & Waitemata Echo of 15th April 1915 mentions that C T Maclean, "The Fighting Parson", was the 54th Officer of the 4th Bn. Royal Fusiliers to have been wounded by the time of Ypres. Perhaps this might go some way towards confirming this. It seems to me now, that some Officers may have made it through 'unscathed'. At least, I cannot find any records of them being WIA at the moment. One these apparently 'unscathed' Officers seems to have been with the Staff from the start. Other Officers look like they transferred to the Staff at a later date- possibly after being wounded.

78.9 % of fatalities were in 1914; 100% of the WIA.

The War Diary mentions that on the night of the 11th November 1914, when the C.O. was killed, "All Officers, except Lieut & Adjt O'Donel and 2/Lt Maclean, were killed, wounded or missing...". I therefore made a presumption that two of the Officers above were wounded at that date. I have not been able to confirm this as yet, and so these Officers' details are highlighted in red. I realise that this may be wrong, but thought it would be easy for anyone to readjust figures if they wished. Wrong! Adjusted.

I hope my calculations are correct, especially with regard to the WIA, as I was a bit confused here.

Regards,

Chris

Edit #1: Appearance of table.
Edit #2: Some reservations over WIA data. Presumed evacuation due to info on MiCs which states "Returns + date".

Edit #3: 21.02.15, To update with new research. Many thanks to Martin for his pointers re the Officers possibly on Staff.

[phil andrade]

Thanks for that remarkable testimony, Chris.

What you're doing - along with our stalwart Martin G and others - is very important in historiographical terms.

There has, I feel, been an excess of commentary seeking to downplay the bloodiness of the Great War.

We're constantly reminded that what happened was thoroughly eclipsed a generation later in the Soviet Nazi clash ; and that even in NW Europe in 1944-45 infantrymen suffered casualty rates that rivalled those of 1914-18 ; and that what had occurred in more ancient battles in the black powder era was every bit as bad, perhaps worse.

Yes, we need some of the myth debunking to be applied, but it's beginning to assume dimensions of complacency about the Great War which I find repellent intellectually and emotionally.

Let's hope that a bit of balance is restored by dint of the work that you and Martin - and others - are carrying out here.

Phil (PJA)

[Guest]

Hello there,

As part of my ongoing look at the 4th Bn Royal Fusiliers I have managed to produce the following table. Hope it is of help.

4th Bn RF Officers.jpg

The 1914 Star Roll shows 35 Officers disembarking on the 13.8.14. I am not entirely sure this is correct, as there is some evidence that some of them disembarked a bit later, and/or that some of them were "Attached". However, I decided to analyse them as they appear, at least for now.

Fatalities seem to be around 54.3%. We reach a figure of 60% 'permanently out of action' when the POWs are added. 48.6% of the 35 Officers appear to have been wounded in action at some point (this figure includes some of those who subsequently became a fatality or POW).

Of those officers who landed on 13th August, none seem to have made it through unscathed. The Kaipara & Waitemata Echo of 15th April 1915 mentions that C T Maclean, "The Fighting Parson", was the 54th Officer of the 4th Bn. Royal Fusiliers to have been wounded by Ypres. Perhaps this might go some way towards confirming this.

78.9 % of fatalities were in 1914; 100% of the WIA.

The War Diary mentions that on the night of the 11th November 1914, when the C.O. was killed, "All Officers, except Lieut & Adjt O'Donel and 2/Lt Maclean, were killed, wounded or missing...". I therefore made a presumption that two of the Officers above were wounded at that date. I have not been able to confirm this as yet, and so these Officer's details are highlighted in red. I realise that this may be wrong, but thought it would be easy for anyone to readjust figures if they wished.

I hope my calculations are correct, especially with regard to the WIA, as I was a bit confused here.

Regards,

Chris

Edited: Appearance of table.

Chris. Fantastic work. Many thanks for this.

Ref the 35 Officers - some may have been on Brigade Staff such as Brigade Major, Staff capt or Brigade MGO...or even in other Admin roles. I am ploughing through the regiments' 1914 rolls and have so far done 14 battalions. Most appear to have at least one men extra-regimentally employed. The 1st Queen's had two Officers in Brigade Staff for example.

I am wading through the BEF's battalions - 16 done so far - and there are plenty of gaps in the data. I should have this done by the end of the month. 5700 named individuals, disembarkation dates and ultimate fate (and date). I am using the following approach

1. Transcribe the 1914 Star medal roll, with comments (many have casualty data too, but often incomplete)

2. Add casualty data from the 1914-15 war diary

3. Where there are gaps look the names up in the published histories.

I am getting overall casualty ratios for the first cohorts averaging around 85% and fatalities in excess of 40%. MG

MG

[Drew-1918]

Chris. Fantastic work. Many thanks for this.

Ref the 35 Officers - some may have been on Brigade Staff such as Brigade Major, Staff capt or Brigade MGO...or even in other Admin roles. I am ploughing through the regiments' 1914 rolls and have so far done 14 battalions. Most appear to have at least one men extra-regimentally employed. The 1st Queen's had two Officers in Brigade Staff for example.

I am wading through the BEF's battalions - 16 done so far - and there are plenty of gaps in the data. I should have this done by the end of the month. 5700 named individuals, disembarkation dates and ultimate fate (and date). I am using the following approach

1. Transcribe the 1914 Star medal roll, with comments (many have casualty data too, but often incomplete)

2. Add casualty data from the 1914-15 war diary

3. Where there are gaps look the names up in the published histories.

I am getting overall casualty ratios for the first cohorts averaging around 85% and fatalities in excess of 40%. MG

MG

You’re very welcome. And thanks for the information regarding the ‘extra’ Officers. Now that you mention it, I am wondering if Major Gwyn may have been employed in such a role, as I haven’t come across his name being mentioned at all in the Bn WD or History, which I think might be slightly unusual for this period of the war, and given his rank/seniority.

Re the process of checking the rolls- that’s pretty much the approach I used, with a bit of googling of names if points 2 and 3 didn’t provide any information. I am sure you would like to check through the 4^th Bn. Royal Fusiliers 14 Star Roll yourself, but if you would like a copy of the main body cohort Officer data, in case it saves you any time at all, just give me a PM.

Regards,

Chris

[Muerrisch]

I don't think Brigades had an MGO until uch later in the war.

[charlesmessenger]

Brigade MGO was not an established staff position, but some brigades did have them on an unofficial basis during the early part of the war, that is until the establishment of the Machine Gun Corps, when the OC of the Brigade MG coy fulfilled this role. That is my reading, but I standto be corrected.

Charles M

[Guest]

I beg to differ. Brigade MGOs do get mentioned in the diaries of 1914. I can dig up the forensics if necessary. MG

[Guest]

The Coldstream Guards 1914-1918 page 20 lists over a dozen Officers serving after mobilisation in Aug 1914 in Brigade Staffs and elsewhere, including;

4th Guards Brigade: "Brigade Machine Gun Officer: Capt Hon E W M M Brabazon, Coldstream Guards"

1st Guards Brigade: "Brigade Machine Gun Officer: Capt Sir W T Payne-Gallwey Bart MVO Grenadier Guards"

Other roles:

Brigade Major

Staff Capt

Brigade Signalling Officer

Div Cyclists

[Guest]

I have crunched the data on 11 battalions that landed in Aug 1914 so far;

• 1914 Star Roll - disembarkation dates plus some casualty notes
• War Diary - casualty notes
• Published history -casualty notes

Of the 311 named individual Officers, 271 became battle casualties. 87%. The vast majority (over 80%) happened in 1914.

The data may need some refining as some narratives claim battalions were down to one or two officers. In some cases the fate of the other officers was not always recorded and some men simply vanish from the records despite being recorded in the rolls, diaries and histories as disembarking with the battalion. In these cases I have taken the most conservative approach and assumed they were unscathed (despite the narratives). This approach means we can be confident that the data is not over-stated.

My sense is that Officer casualties for the August 1914 cohort will be between 85%-95% - this would have had a fairly critical implications for lost experience. Very few of the wounded appear to have returned to their battalions. MG

[Muerrisch]

Brigade MGO was not an established staff position, but some brigades did have them on an unofficial basis during the early part of the war, that is until the establishment of the Machine Gun Corps, when the OC of the Brigade MG coy fulfilled this role. That is my reading, but I standto be corrected.

Charles M

Charles I agree. I also have no problem with some Brigades having an MGO de facto, but not de jure.

Quite what useful purpose he could achieve, with never more than 8 guns potentially on call, all of whom jealously guarded by a lt-col., is another matter. There was no doctrine for MG use above unit level that I am aware of.

[Guest]

Charles I agree. I also have no problem with some Brigades having an MGO de facto, but not de jure.

Quite what useful purpose he could achieve, with never more than 8 guns potentially on call, all of whom jealously guarded by a lt-col., is another matter. There was no doctrine for MG use above unit level that I am aware of.

For the purposes of this thread it simply confirms the whereabouts of Officers named on the medal rolls disembarking on or near the same dates as their Regiment/Battalion and not appearing in the unit diaries. MG

[Guest]

Some big numbers from a large sample: So far I have done the forensics on 13 battalion's worth of Officers who landed in Aug 1914 (roughly a quarter of the initial infantry deployment) 355 named Officers of whom 294 (83%) became casualties.

• 67% casualties (all types) in 1914 and 71% casualties (all types) within 12 months of landing
• 40% were fatal casualties. 30% in 1914 and 33% within 12 months of landing.
• Roughly speaking two-thirds became casualties in 1914 of which three in ten died in 1914. The implications for the loss of experienced Officers is self-evident.

The comparison between 1914 and the first 12 months is interesting as it demonstrates the exceptionally high concentration of casualties and fatal casualties towards the earlier part of the campaign i.e. within 1914. These numbers will be light as there are a score of men who simply disappear from the records as well as a dozen or so who were in Brigade Staffs.

The conclusions are gaining weight as the sample size increases. The battalions are from a wide range of brigades. I would be very surprised if the aggregate data for all 56 battalions differed markedly from these stats. We shall see. MG

[Muerrisch]

Martin, accepting that the Brigade MGOs are a slight distraction, please allow me to sew the matter up here rather than start a new hare.

Musketry Regs 1914 section 8 ........... in each brigade an officer, who is not the MGO of one of the battalions, will be selected to supervise the firing practice and to conduct the brigade training of the MG sections.

and

section 120 discusses at length the advantages and disadvantages of brigading, and the circumstances when beneficial "under the Brigade MGO".

Whereas

War Estabs 1914 Infantry Brigade HQ are lean and mean and have no provision for such an officer [nor indeed of a horse to enable him to do a bit of brigading!]

War Estabs New Armies are similarly relaxed on the matter.

I would be intrigued to find evidence that such a Bde MGO had any battlefield input regarding brigaded MGs until the war entered its trench phase. Difficult job description to write. Given that [if the brigadier wanted such an officer] he would be infantry, and probably a captain, he would certainly be handy as jack of all trades in the tiny Bde HQ staff established.

[Guest]

Martin, accepting that the Brigade MGOs are a slight distraction, please allow me to sew the matter up here rather than start a new hare.

Musketry Regs 1914 section 8 ........... in each brigade an officer, who is not the MGO of one of the battalions, will be selected to supervise the firing practice and to conduct the brigade training of the MG sections.

and

section 120 discusses at length the advantages and disadvantages of brigading, and the circumstances when beneficial "under the Brigade MGO".

Whereas

War Estabs 1914 Infantry Brigade HQ are lean and mean and have no provision for such an officer [nor indeed of a horse to enable him to do a bit of brigading!]

War Estabs New Armies are similarly relaxed on the matter.

I would be intrigued to find evidence that such a Bde MGO had any battlefield input regarding brigaded MGs until the war entered its trench phase. Difficult job description to write. Given that [if the brigadier wanted such an officer] he would be infantry, and probably a captain, he would certainly be handy as jack of all trades in the tiny Bde HQ staff established.

If may be that the Guards simply wanted to create jobs for their young Officers. It is interesting that the Coldstream Guards history specifically mentions two named Officers as Brigade MGOs. To make the same error twice seems unlikely and the medal rolls confirm these men went out, so conflation seems unlikely. Most of the Guards battalions appear to have ignored the temporary reduction in War Establishment of Officers. Aubrey Herbert appears to have got himself attached to the Irish Guards as an interpreter for example, thereby inflating their numbers by one.

I am fairly sure there are other examples buried in the diaries. I am distracted with 1914 Star medal rolls at present. Should any more evidence of Brigade MGOs appear I will duly post. One diary refers to the MG School being set up in Nov 1914 which doubtless would have absorbed some Officers.

The Coldstream Guards Officers designated as Brigade MGOs would very likely have been sent to battalions within weeks given the attrition, so the supernumerary issue would quickly disappear. As mentioned before, this simply is an exercise in tracing Officers on medal rolls who did not initially serve with their battalions yet disembarked in mid Aug 1914.

One Officer was designated as an AMLO, another as a Brigade Billeting Officer, another DAAG for example. Plenty of non-battalion roles to be filled. MG

[Muerrisch]

One possible reason why Foot Guards did not send off training cadres [captain, 2 of subalterns, 13 NCOs etc] is that there was no planned New Army expansion for them.

[Guest]

One possible reason why Foot Guards did not send off training cadres [captain, 2 of subalterns, 13 NCOs etc] is that there was no planned New Army expansion for them.

Of course. ..Given the shortage of Officers in the New Armies one wonders why they were exempted, particularly as the Indian Army was being denuded of its Officers.

[phil andrade]

Some big numbers from a large sample: So far I have done the forensics on 13 battalion's worth of Officers who landed in Aug 1914 (roughly a quarter of the initial infantry deployment) 355 named Officers of whom 294 (83%) became casualties.

• 67% casualties (all types) in 1914 and 71% casualties (all types) within 12 months of landing
• 40% were fatal casualties. 30% in 1914 and 33% within 12 months of landing.
• Roughly speaking two-thirds became casualties in 1914 of which three in ten died in 1914. The implications for the loss of experienced Officers is self-evident.

The comparison between 1914 and the first 12 months is interesting as it demonstrates the exceptionally high concentration of casualties and fatal casualties towards the earlier part of the campaign i.e. within 1914. These numbers will be light as there are a score of men who simply disappear from the records as well as a dozen or so who were in Brigade Staffs.

The conclusions are gaining weight as the sample size increases. The battalions are from a wide range of brigades. I would be very surprised if the aggregate data for all 56 battalions differed markedly from these stats. We shall see. MG

A bit shocking : not least because the fatalities account for such a high proportion of the overall casualties. That is what I find especially worthy of note ....these officers were literally being killed off. One might normally expect the wounded to outnumber the dead by at least two to one ; allowing for additional POWS in the overall losses might reduce the proportion of fatalities to one quarter or thereabouts of the army's total battle casualties. In this case, not far short of half the officer casualties were fatal. Now that really does demand attention.

Phil (PJA)

[Guest]

Interestingly on 17th Dec 1914 the 11th infantry Brigade asked the battalions to compile data on Officers (and ORs) for the campaign to date. Each battalion would have deployed with around 27 Officers in late Aug 1914; Roughly speaking there would have been 108 battalion Officers at the start:

What interested me was the very low number that returned after being wounded or sick - only 4 out of 127 or roughly 3%. An interesting snapshot.

Edit. Interestingly the Somerset Light Infantry 1914 Star roll lists 61 named Officers. Of these 4 were from other Regiments and one was serving on Brigade Staff. Even adjusting down for these, there were still 55 Officers who had joined the battalion by 22nd Nov 1914. The unit war diary records only two additional officers arriving between this date and 17th Dec, making a total of 57 Regimental Officers. Of these 34 (net) had become casualties one way or another by 17th Dec 1914 (60%).

Elsewhere in the diaries the Brigade records that only 18% of the original battalion Officers who disembarked in Aug 1914 remained with the Brigade at the end of Dec 1914.

[Guest]

The Coldstream Guards 1914-1918 page 20 lists over a dozen Officers serving after mobilisation in Aug 1914 in Brigade Staffs and elsewhere, including;

4th Guards Brigade: "Brigade Machine Gun Officer: Capt Hon E W M M Brabazon, Coldstream Guards"

1st Guards Brigade: "Brigade Machine Gun Officer: Capt Sir W T Payne-Gallwey Bart MVO Grenadier Guards"

Other roles:

Brigade Major

Staff Capt

Brigade Signalling Officer

Div Cyclists

The history of the KOYLI, page 723 describes Lt Unett as the Brigade Machine Gun Officer at Le Cateau.

[David Filsell]

Martin,

Once again you are collecting a huge amount of fascinating material - on this an other threads - is there an ultimate objective - a book perhap - which will bring all this together?

Best regards

Davd

[Guest]

Martin,

Once again you are collecting a huge amount of fascinating material - on this an other threads - is there an ultimate objective - a book perhap - which will bring all this together?

Best regards

Davd

David - Just an unhealthy interest in the Great War. I have a reasonably large transcription project which has created a very large searchable database. It has largely been focused on 1914 and is now ploughing into 1915. The process of transcribing and editing such a large amount of material has thrown up dozens of interesting anomalies and curiosities that have triggered some of the threads. The 1914 diary narratives are over two million words and would take rather a long time to read. Transcriptions do one very important thing; they make the material searchable.The ability to search such a large body of material is extremely powerful.

In this particular case, I was struck by the high incidences of battalions reduced to a handful of officers, the difficulties in being able to replace them and the high number of officers posted to other regiments. Ideas such as regimental esprit de corps are rather hard to maintain when casualties exceed 100% of War Establishment and Officers with no prior connection to a battalion are the only ones left. So I wondered just how many battalions were reduced to one, or two or three officers? How many officers went through each battalion in 1914? How long did they last? what were the implications for command and control? Ditto maintaining morale? How did Officers from, say English regiments, possibly straight out of Sandhurst cope with leading the shattered remains of, say, a Highland battalion? Why did the Guards battalions have much higher casualty rates? Bad luck? bad leadership? overzealous leadership? Just how many officers became non-fatal casualties in 1914? How many returned? How many of the Officers who disembarked in Aug 1914 were still with their battalions on new years eve? Were phases of 1914 worse than the Somme in terms of attrition ratios? etc. To answer these questions might take rather a lot of reading. With over 200 transcribed diaries one is able to search and collate a substantial amount of supporting material very quickly. It allows one to explore themes that might not always be apparent if one has to trawl through material with the Mark I eyeball and no ability to search or compare.

No book is planned but I hope to make the material available online one day very soon. My current obsession is integrating medal rolls and embarkation rolls with diaries. Click on a name and, say, a casualty date or disembarkation date and get straight to the diary or digitised history in two seconds. The aim is to get 1914 and 1915 covered as these are the years where we can identify when (disembarkation dates) and where these men fought. The 5,700 infantry Officers of the BEF will be done by end of next week. A useful database and particularly useful when digitally linked to the diaries. 1914-15 Star will be slightly more challenging. Mid year I think. MG

[Derek Black]

If I was a hat wearer, I'd take it off to you Martin.

Sterling dedication to your research, I for one look forward to seeing your labour come to fruition!

Derek.

[Guest]

To illustrate that the attrition was just as severe for later cohorts in 1914- here is the fate of the 2nd Bn Border Regiment. It formed part of 20th Inf Bde, 7th Div, disembarking on 5th Oct 1914.

• 24 of the 28 Officers became battle casualties. (86%)
• 20 Officers were battle casualties within a month of landing. (71%)
• 24 Officers were battle casualties within three months of landing.

Black - Medal Rollinfo (sometime conflicting with the diary and the history)

Blue - war diary info.

Red - published history

MG

[Guest]

More evidence of Brigade Machine Gun Officers - this time from the 3rd Inf Bde. So far we have evidence from;

1st Guards Bde,

3rd Inf Bde,

4th Guards Bde

14th Inf Bde

Source: 2nd Bn Welsh Regt dairy dated 7th Aug 1914, which incidentally is an almost perfect summary of the mobilisation and the impact on a typical line infantry regiment.Edit: Incidentally 25 of the 27 Officer were casualties within 3 months of disembarking.

12th Aug 1914. Battalion left by train in two ½ Battalions at 2:07 pm and 3:21 pm for SOUTHAMPTON. Embarked same evening in RMS BRAEMAR CASTLE. Strength as follows:

Officers. Headquarters.

Lt Col C B MORLAND

Maj O B PRITCHARD

Capt & Adjt W H FERRAR

Lt and QM R M HILL

Lt G D MELVILLE MGO

2 Lt G D PARTRIDGE Transport Officer

Capt E M O'NEILL RAMC in medical charge of unit

A Coy

Capt L I O ROBINS

2 Lt W G A CORDER

2 Lt W G HEWETT

2 Lt M T WOOTTON (Special Reserve The WELSH REGT)

B Coy

Capt C R BERKELEY DSO

Capt M HAGGARD

Lt W S EVANS

Lt H N WALKER

Lt G R FITZPATRICK 3rd Bn WELSH REGT (attached)

C Coy

Capt W A G MOORE

Capt H C REES

Lt Hon W F SOMERSET

2 Lt F W FORD

2 Lt J J C COCKS 3rd Bn WELSH REGT (attached)

D Coy

Maj J H KERRICH

Capt P L W POWELL

Lt C A S CARLETON

Lt J N GILBEY

2 Lt W OWEN

2 Lt B T V B HAMBROUGH

The following WO proceeded with the Battalion

Sgt Maj C H HAMPTON

Sgts 49

Corps 43

Buglers 16

Rank & file 870

including 4 RAMC and 1 AOC

TOTAL 27 officers

1 MO

1,006 R & F

The following officers proceeded on active service in various employments.

Capt C P M GRAHAM APM 1st DIV

Capt A G LYTTELTON Bde MG Officer 3rd INF BDE

2 Lt J A DANIEL 1st DIV Cyclist Coy

The following officers left the Battalion for duty at the Regiment depot on the 10th Aug for duty in raising a new unit.

Capt H L STEVENS

Lt R X WHITTY

2 Lt E I G RICHARDS

In addition to the above, 1 Sgt, 2 Corps, 27 rank and file joined the 1st DIV Cyclist Coy on foundation.