Bullecourt - British soldiers bodies from 1917 located in a field.

[ianw]

Thanks mate.

So I assume the thing missing in this case compared to Pheasant Wood is definitive proof of burials from the German side?

Rgds

Tim D

At Fromelles, after the research including reference to German records , there was an exploratory dig that confirmed that the remains were there followed by the main dig etc.

However, the line seems to have always been that this was a unique one-off. That is why I was surprised by the the Australian Embassy's statement that any remains at Bullecourt would be removed if it could be proved that they are there. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they row back on this statement if it is widely picked up on.

But with Lambis involved, in my opinion, the site may now be "in play". If he can get potential relatives interested, things may happen.

[Blackblue]

Understood, but wasn't it the case that the exploratory dig was only supported when the German records were produced?

[ianw]

Understood, but wasn't it the case that the exploratory dig was only supported when the German records were produced?

I think we have forum members who will be able to comment definitively on that. Also the main Fromelles thread here may cast light on this. I will take a look.

[keithmroberts]

There is a detailed account of the Fromelles recovery in Peter Barton's recent book on the subject, which is in any event well worth reading for anyone with an interest in that action.

Keith

[ianw]

Yes, the Fromelles story will demonstrate parallels with Bullecourt when everything plays out - who knew what when, what the German archives reveal , local politics etc etc.

One area that interests me is how the established incompetence of Australian Graves Services may have left Diggers unrecovered in the time when the AGS was active and to a degree set up the current situation.

Back in 2008 , the official communique from the Australian Army said of Fromelles :-

Under instruction from the Australian Army in July last year, GUARD conducted a non-invasive evaluation which determined beyond reasonable doubt that the site was used to bury Australian and British war dead, and suggested it is likely that remains are still in situ.

The Australian Government is proceeding with the limited excavation under the auspices of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, and with the approval of French and British authorities and in consultation with German authorities.

What likelihood that the same will eventually be done at Bullecourt. The circumstances are not materially different. Another "non-invasive evaluation" would seem necessary.

[Seadog]

Ian I think the chances of another Fromelles on this site are no better than 50/50 if that.

Norman

[ianw]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Bullecourt is another Fromelles numerically - but surely this merits an attempt at clarification.

[Blackblue]

Thanks chaps,

On the face of it I thought it sounded like Fromelles, so was hoping someone could point out the differences and similarities....any additional obstacles and the like. I guess one difference is the Germans did not send details of the burials to the allied authorities.

Rgds

Tim D

[ianw]

On the face of it I thought it sounded like Fromelles .....

Rgds

Tim D

Well yes I guess so inasmuch as that we MAY have a significant number of sets of remains in a french field. However, I am not clear how we are supposed to react in response to this - if indeed we should react at all.

Fromelles is widely regarded as a uniquely special case. I am not quite sure why. Of course, the numbers of remains there at around 250 was high but would say 60 sets of remains be a number to be regarded as beneath consideration. I would say not.

Is validation from the German records a prerequisite to encourage our authorities to consider even a non-invasive investigation as was the first action at Fromelles? Somewhat ironic if that is the case. In the case of Bullecourt, is there anything recorded by the Germans?

Have the considerable costs of the overall Fromelles operation - ID work, the cemetery, the opening ceremony - led to its special case status ?

Fascinating to see where this goes , if anywhere.

[ianw]

Interesting that the new Australian ambassador to France chose the Bullecourt locale for his first official visit. He recognised its special importance to Australia.

But he dodged commenting on the recent metal detecting activities!

Whilst His Excellency can go where he likes, I wouldn't imagine that the powers that be would be too delighted.

http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/region/bullecourt-le-pelerinage-du-nouvel-ambassadeur-australien-ia29b0n2474101

[diver99]

Who was the Australian Major the historian is looking for?

Scott

Percy Black.

[diver99]

The Bullecourt burials story continues to simmer. More in the French press today :-

http://www.20minutes.fr/lille/1477079-20141107-calais-pourquoi-soldats-guerre-14-18-peut-etre-jamais-sepultures

Interesting that Lambis of Fromelles fame is now getting involved. Possibly an important development as he obviously has credibility and has been honoured for his efforts in respect of Fromelles by the Australian Government. So I guess he will get news coverage at home at this time of the year and on an ongoing basis.

He also may have caused the Australian Embassy to say a bit more than the UK authorities would have liked :-

Along the lines of "When sufficient evidence is provided , the government will take the necessary actions to recover the bodies as previously at Fromelles. At the present time, no substantial evidence has been provided".

Even with the caveat at the end of the comment , if one was minded to let sleeping Tommies and Diggers lie, should this have been said to a man like Lambis?

Watch this space , I think.

Lambis started the idea. He sent his 'people' to investigate.

[Waddell]

This story from a few months back seems not to have raised much attention-

http://minister.dva.gov.au/media_releases/2015/may/va051.pdf

Any more details on this?

Scott

[ianw]

My reading of this is that the remains found on 23.5.15 were not found at the "hot spot" close to the village that has previously aroused a lot of interest. As Scott suggests above there is nothing much about this on the internet.