Bullecourt - British soldiers bodies from 1917 located in a field.

[margaretdufay]

Bullecourt (sud Arrageois) : des corps de soldats britanniques morts en 1917 localisés dans un champ

PUBLIÉ LE 24/09/2014

PAR LAURENT BOUCHERéactions (3)

L’agriculteur Didier Guerle a été surpris de la visite d’un historien australien, Carl Johnson, mais pas de sa découverte dans son champ ces derniers jours : la présence de « trente à soixante corps » de soldats britanniques morts lors des batailles de Bullecourt (sud Arrageois) au printemps 1917.

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Presque autant de piquets blancs ont été plantés à l’emplacement où les détecteurs de métaux ont localisé des restes de l’équipement des soldats, jusqu’à deux mètres sous la terre.

Le grand-père de Didier Guerle avait demandé que ce terrain ne soit pas cultivé, sachant qu’il avait abrité la ligne de front, avec les lignes britanniques face aux lignes allemandes. Son vœu a été exaucé : des moutons y pâturent tranquillement. Didier Guerle et son ami Jean Letaille, ancien maire aujourd’hui décédé, qui a donné son nom à un musée australien de la Grande Guerre, ont sondé la terre au fil des années à la recherche de vestiges du sanglant conflit, non sans voir ressurgir régulièrement des restes humains.

déjà Neuf corps en 2009

Les corps de neuf soldats retrouvés en 2009 ont déjà été exhumés, dont deux ont pu être identifiés : le lieutenant Pritchard, commandant la compagnie du deuxième bataillon de la Honourable Artillery Compagny, le plus ancien régiment de l’armée britannique, et le soldat Elphick. Le 23 avril 2013, ils étaient inhumés avec les honneurs dans un cimetière britannique voisin.

« Les archives mentionnent que trente à quarante de ses hommes ont été enterrés avec lui à l’arrière de la tranchée de deuxième ligne, on pense qu’on les a trouvés », rapporte Carl Johnson, venu en France à la demande d’un autre Australien, Lambis Englezos, à l’origine de l’exhumation de deux cents corps à Fromelles. « On voudrait que les hommes du capitaine Pritchard soient réunis avec leur officier dans une sépulture digne. »

Carl Johnson doit aussi rechercher le corps d’un major australien disparu avec deux cents hommes sur un champ de bataille tout proche de Bullecourt.

La localisation de dépouilles n’est qu’une étape avant d’éventuelles exhumations, qui prennent du temps. « On a demandé à des archéologues britanniques d’intervenir », intervient Peter Norton, un guide australien des circuits de mémoire depuis Arras. « Ça coûte cher aux gouvernements, mais la guerre en Afghanistan ou en Irak aussi », compare Didier Guerle.

[margaretdufay]

Bullecourt (sud Arrageois) : des corps de soldats britanniques morts en 1917 localisés dans un champ

PUBLIÉ LE 24/09/2014

PAR LAURENT BOUCHER

Thought you might appreciate a quick translation.

mags

Didier Guerlé, a farmer, was surprised by the visit of Carol Johnson, an Australian historian, but not of his discovery in his field in the past few days : the presence of thirty to sixty bodies of British soldiers who died during the battles of Bullecourt (southern Arras) in the spring of 1917.

Nearly as many white sticks have been planted where the metal detectors have located the soldiers equipment, up to two metres below the earth.Didier Guerle's grandfather had requested that this ground should not be used, knowing that it had sheltered the front line, the British lines opposite the German lines. His wishes were granted, sheep pastured there peacefully. Didier Guerle and his friend the late Jean Letaille, former mayor , and who gave his name to an Australian museum of the Great War., over the years sounded the land researching remains of this bloody conflict, and regularly finding human remains, including nine bodies in 2009.

The bodies of nine soldiers found in 2009 have already been exhumed, of which two were identified, Lieutenant Pritchard, commander of the company of the second batallion of the Honourable Artillery Company, the oldest regiment of the British army, and of Private Elphick. On the 23 April 2013, tey were reburied with full military honours in a neighbouring British Cemetery.

The archives mention that thirty to forty of his men were buried with him behind the trench of the second line, I think we have found them said Carl Johnson, who came to France on the request of another Australian Lambis Englezos, who was at the origin of the exhumation of twohundred bodies in Fromelle. We would like the men of Captain Pritchard to be reunited with their officer in a dignified manner.

Carl Johnson is also researching the body of an Australian major who disappeared with two hundred men in a battlefield near Bullecourt.

The localization of the remains is only a step before eventual exhumations, which takes time. We have asked British archeologists to intervene, said Peter Norton, an Australian guide of the memory trail around Arras. It's expensive for goverments, but so does the war in Afghanistan and in Iraq added Didier Guerle.

[margaretdufay]

Sorry somehow managed to post this twice, so have locked the first one, but can't actually remove it completely

mags

[margaretdufay]

here is a second article dated today

Région

Bullecourt (sud arrageois) : la « guerre » est déclarée autour de la recherche des corps de 14-18

PUBLIÉ LE 25/09/2014

L’intervention d’un historien australien sur l’ancien champ de bataille de Bullecourt fait polémique. Les services de l’archéologie préventive rappellent l’interdiction de sonder le sol sans autorisation préalable.

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A lire aussi

• Les recheches d'un historien australien

La localisation de corps de soldats britanniques dans un champ n’a réjoui ni les autorités françaises ni celles du Commonwealth. Conservateur régional de l’archéologie à la DRAC (direction régionale des affaires culturelles), Stéphane Révillion dénonce une « utilisation illégale » de détecteurs de métaux (avec le risque d’explosion de restes de munitions enterrées). Il parle d’une « opération clandestine », sans demande d’autorisation auprès de la DRAC ou de la Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CGWC), en charge de l’exhumation des corps des soldats des forces militaires britanniques, australiennes, etc.

Les recherches archéologiques se bornent aux chantiers où vont être construits un lotissement, une autoroute… Sinon, on ne fouille pas le sol. Même à Bullecourt (sud arrageois), haut lieu de la Grande Guerre où 10 000 Australiens ont péri et où la localisation de corps est connue.

« Fromelles est l’exception à la règle », note Alain Jacques, archéologue de la ville d’Arras. L’historien australien Lambis Englezos avait agi à titre privé, avant une collaboration avec les autorités. Qui ne semblent pas d’avis qu’on recommence à Bullecourt.

À son tour, Carl Johnson pousse pour qu’on autorise les fouilles. Un officier d’exhumation de la CGWC est habilité pour ces opérations, sur décision de la DRAC. À partir d’un dossier étayé. Pour Fromelles, on y était arrivé au bout de longues années d’efforts.

[margaretdufay]

The intervention of an Australian historian on the former battlefield of Bullecourt has created an uproar. The preventive archeological services remind us of the prohibition of sounding the soil without the necessary authorizations.

The localization of remains of British soldiers in a field has not pleased neither the French authorities of those of the Commonwealth. Regional Archeological Curator of the DRAC (Regional Management of Cultural Affairs) Stephane Révillion denounced an illegal use of metal detectors (with the risk of explosiion from the remains of buried ammunitions.) He spoke of a clandestine operation withouth an application for authorization from the DRAC or the Commonwealth War Graves Commssion (CGWC) in charge of the exhumation of the remains of soldiers from the British, Australian military forces etc.

The archeological digs are limited to worksite, where new housing estates or motorways are going to be built. If it is not the case, we do not dig. Even in Bullecourt (Southern Arras) an important site of the Great war where ten thousand Austalians perished and where the localization of bodies is known.

Fromelles is the exception to the rule, noted Alain Jacques, Archeologist of the town of Arras. The Australian historian Lambis Englezos acted privately with the assistance of the authorities. Who do not seem to want to restart in Bullecourt.

In turn, Carl Johnson is pushing for the digs to be authorized. An exhumation officer from the CGWC is authorized for these operations, on decision of the DRAC;From the basis of a well documented file. For Fromelles, we succeeded after long years of efforts.

[DB1]

Really surprised your post hasn't attracted any interest. Please post any further updates, I am very interested. Thank you for the post.

[towisuk]

I've just found this topic...well done those men....looking forward to further updates...

regards

Tom

[trajan]

Really surprised your post hasn't attracted any interest. Please post any further updates, I am very interested. Thank you for the post.

Oh I thought it had! 117 views is not too bad for a new thread.

[ianw]

Having been peripherally involved with assisting the relatives of Lt Pritchard HAC to discover that his remains had been found, I subsequently visited Bullecourt with the family. It was obvious that the field concerned was untouched since the Great War and was therefore likely to contain more remains - indeed the local people knew this is to be the case.

This will inevitably put great pressure on the convention to let sleeping Tommies and Diggers lie. The 2009 remains were I think discovered when a small drainage ditch was being dug so who is to say that the owner of the field might decide that another such ditch is needed coincidentally in precisely the place where more remains are suspected to be!!

The field concerned is located within the village itself and so these potential remains are not out in the boondocks. It would seem inevitable that the natural expansion of Bullecourt may lead to building on this field within fairly short order. This begs the question whether the suspected remains should be removed as early as possible so that they can be accorded a decent burial and - and here's perhaps the rub , attempts be made to give them back their identities.

Perhaps unsurprising that there is Australian interest in the possibility of remains at Bullecourt. Also interesting if the argument that "Fromelles was a unique and special case" can be maintained if interest in Australia gathers momentum. That said, I understand that HAC men remain missing. Two of their number from that field "came in from the cold" near Arras last year witnessed by royalty and Jeremy Paxman no less . Will more follow?

[trenchtrotter]

I know the field and was made aware that the presence of many bodies there has been known for sometime. I was told that the landowner did not want them disturbed but maybe as suggested expansion has changed that view?

TT

[phil andrade]

Did ten thousand Australians really " perish " in the Bullecourt sector ?

Ten thousand casualties is one thing..but " perishing" is another and I would be loath to believe that more Australians died at Bullecourt than in the entire Gallipoli campaign.

Phil (PJA)

[59165]

lol.

[moggs]

Looking forward to seeing how this develops both in terms of what may be found as well as the methods used so far which appear to have ruffled feathers.

Jonathan

[fjwiltshire]

Hello Everyone

I would like to register an interest if this field contains what was Bovis Trench. My uncle died there 21/5/1917 in a disastrous attack by the 2/6th London Regiment. Can anyone provide details of its location.

Frank

[Blackblue]

A little bit different to Pheasant Wood.....but this appears far more than just a fishing expedition.

If there is tangible evidence that a group of known individuals lie in a certain relatively small location - not effectively commemorated and not named - then does it not make perfect sense to correct the record?

If the field is to be built on then why not excavate first.

Rgds

Tim D

[Waddell]

Who was the Australian Major the historian is looking for?

Scott

[towisuk]

Frank.....

The trench that ran through this field is "Joy ride" trench, "Bovis" is to the North east of it..

regards

Tom

[fjwiltshire]

Thanks Tom

[towisuk]

Thank you again for this news mate, there will be some interesting reactions to come from the various authorities methinks....

But the field being in the village appears to be a prime development prospect, so who can blame the farmer if he wants to make use of it. His family have "looked after" the bodies buried there since the war......(that is assuming it is to be built on)

If the area is now needed by the villagers, at least the men there will be recovered and given a decent burial, unlike what happens in some areas of the Western Front, where if what I've been told is true.... the remains end up being used, as what amounts to aggregate for the concrete, by unscrupulous developers.

regards

Tom

Edited 28 September , 2014 by SPOF
Removed reply to off topic post.

[Seadog]

Interesting news indeed, I am not disputing that possible human remains have been found but to me that seems a bit of a leap from detecting metal in the field and assuming that this is the soldier’s equipment. We will all have views on this and mine are quite straightforward, leave well alone unless the field is to be developed and any remains disturbed or destroyed in which case there will be no alternative to a formal professional exhumation. In that case I am doubtful that the authorities will have the stomach for another albeit smaller Fromelles operation to include DNA profiling.

To me this statement in the article raises concerns “Carl Johnson is also researching the body of an Australian major who disappeared with two hundred men in a battlefield near Bullecourt.” and I think that the French authorities and the CWGC plus British and Australian MODs should issue a statement making their position with regard to individuals actively searching for mass burials quite clear as this will at least set some clear parameters for both the landowners and those who would undertake these searches.

Norman

[trajan]

I do find the whole story extremely interesting, which is why I started to read it, and I look forward to seeing what develops there. And, with my archaeological hat on, I was also wondering if these guys were transgressing any national laws or local regulations with regard to what they were doing...

Julian

Edited 28 September , 2014 by SPOF
Removed reply to off topic post.

[ianw]

And, with my archaeological hat on, I was also wondering if these guys were transgressing any national laws or local regulations with regard to what they were doing...

The same thought crossed my mind. They have not broken ground at all. They have just used detectors to mark on the surface where they obtained readings - personally I cant see how a reading can be taken to indicate the location of remains. Surely it is more likely to be a shell case , a coil of barbed wire or piece of modern scap metal.

That said this field is locally known to contain remains and remains were indeed found there in 2009. I can't see this going away during the centenary years and in the game changed post-Pheasant Wood age.

[margaretdufay]

Now this is nothing to do with the above subject, but I put the name bullecourt on the CWGC site and came up with two casualties of WW2 who had it in their middle names, I just wonder what their connection to Bullecourt was.

Mags

Name Rank Service Number Date of Death Age Regiment / Service Service Country Grave /
Memorial Reference Cemetery / Memorial Name Docs. FALK, VICTOR ARTHUR BULLECOURT Sergeant 403571 26/06/1942 25 Royal New Zealand Air Force New Zealand 1. C. 6. SAGE WAR CEMETERY MERCER, GEORGE BULLECOURT Private NX9820 16/04/1941 21 Australian Infantry Australian Face 11. ATHENS MEMORIAL

[Blackblue]

Pretty common for children born during or after WW1. I have relatives born 1915 middle name Bridges after General William Bridges and 1919 middle name Peace.....for obvious reasons. In another recent thread a soldier's nephew had the middle name Mons. Looks like George Mercer's father William was with the original 4th Battalion, so probably at Bullecourt.

Rgds

Tim D

[Blackblue]

William was on strength of 4th Bn and WIA at Second Bullecourt on 5 May 1917 after joining the Bn in February 1917. Bullecourt was his only significant action. He was evacuated to England and eventually invalided to Australia in mid 1918 without further active service. George was born 12 months later.