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What does the stirrup on his sleeve signify


Sue S
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Can someone tell me what the significance of the stirrup on his sleeve is. It has been suggested to me that it means that he was a roughrider. If so can anyone tell me what that actually means. thanks Sue

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I think it's a ' rough rider ' trade badge.

I don't know what it signifies but I have seen it in amongst other trade badges on a postcard.

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IIRC that badge indicates a Riding Instructor

Jon

Yes, riding instructor.

Riding instructor RGA

Can one of you please tell me what specifically distinguishes this man as a riding instructor rather than a rough rider? I haven't as yet seen a RGA man appointed riding instructor so a name and number of one who was would be enlightening.

Kevin

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Could it be he was qualified instructor that was transferred to RGA. I assume he could still wear a trade badge?

Have you found a MiC for him?

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A follow on from the above. The 'stirrup' badge is in fact a 'spur'. Roughriders. Breakers of horses not instructors?

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Hi Sue,

Very nice early-war photo of a Corporal-Instructor of the RGA, who is wearing the 'neck-up' spur arm-badge (by regulation, the single badge issued should have been worn on the upper right arm!) indicating his qualification as an 'Assistant Riding Instructor', who was commonly known as a 'Rough Rider', whose role was to break-in new horses and train new horsemen in the mounted services. He is wearing the 'Emergency or Modified Drab' pattern of Service Dress jacket introduced in late 1914 as a an economy measure (no pocket pleats, no rifle-patches on the shoulders), and Bedford cord breeches, in a lighter shade of khaki, regulation wear for Other Ranks in the mounted services. However, instead of the regulation puttees he's wearing private purchase leather leggings, normally the mark of an officer.

Some previous threads on the subject that might help too.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=57413

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195008

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111693

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=135517

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66859

Rgds,

CMF

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Riding Instructors and/or Assistant Riding Instructors are not not at all impressed with being called or referred to as Rough Riders - I fell foul of a Blues & Royals Riding Instructor who explained this to me in no uncertain terms.

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For the period concerned, and especially for the RGA and not one of the other Corps, I would suggest that the nomenclature for the RA (and RE) was roughrider. I base this on KRs 763, the earliest specific class for such taken by the RGA at Woolwich on the 23rd Feb 1916, and from mens service records. Whether this man performed the duties of a riding instructor is impossible to say, he may well have, but there hasn't been any contemporary original documents been shown yet that that is the case for this man or the RGA during the great war.

The only thing which may specifically distinguish him as a riding instructor may be him wearing the badge on both sleeves, so again if any one has documented evidence that that is the case it would be very interesting.

I would respectively suggest that there was probably some difference between the RGA of the great war and that of the Blues & Royals some years later. There was probably such difference at the time.

Kevin

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The badge is a badge of appointment rather than 'trade'.

I take the below almost verbatim from Edwards & Langley British Army Proficiency Badges.

Spur.

Rough-Rider, Riding Instructor, Remount Trainer.

Instructor.

Worn: Upper right arm.

Introduced: Clothing Warrant 1865.

"One of the more romantic vocations in the army, the rough-rider was - still is - responsible for breaking in new horses and new recruits for the cavalry.

In Clothing Regulations 1881 the spur appears as the badge for rough-riders of cavalry, RA, RE, ASC/ Commissariat and Transport Corps. The stipulation was made that the RA should wear the spur 'neck down', though in Amendment 204 of the following year this was changed to read neck upwards".

This is a single badge - worn, in this case and commonly seen across all badges, on the wrong arm. There is no distinction for an Assistant by the wearing of only one, nor for a 'full' Instructor of wearing of one on both arms.

Cheers,

GT.

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There is a saying that 'you learn something new everyday'. I have learnt a great deal today and thank you all for your very detailed replies. Sadly I don't know who is. I collect postcards and few people want artillery men so I picked up what I thought was a nice postcard for 50p! Thanks again and kind regards. Sue

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Nice to be quoted almost verbatim.

In our period the badge and the appointment were called Rough Rider.

Roughs were horses as yet untrained.

The Rough Rider (sources vary as to one word version) trained horse and man

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Nice to be quoted almost verbatim.

In our period the badge and the appointment were called Rough Rider.

Tried to: although there is variance in the text in the use of capitals and/ or hyphens and wasn't sure which to plump for!

Cheers,

GT.

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Thanks Sue,

I'm sure its just a combination of image low resolution and the way the light was catching it, that was preventing me from clearly making out a canon.

Rgds

paul

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