Germany : Fritz Limbach - letters from the front - 1915

[JWK]

Ah, happy you like it ! I thought a face to the name in the title would liven things up a bit.

Added a calender for 1915, on which I'll be marking the days he sent a letter (updates every month).

It's early days yet, but the blog is slowly coming together.

For one of the forthcoming letters, in which he writes about being issued with a "brandspanking shiny blingy new" Mauser 98 rifle, accompanied by a "französisches Seitengewehr " (a French bajonet), I plan to put up the picture shown below of what I believe is a "brandspanking shiny blingy new" Mauser 98, together with its bajonet, because I doubt many readers will know what a Mauser looks like (I certainly don't !)

But is that a French bajonet ? And is it really a Mauser 98 ?

Google says it is, but then Google says many things.....

[ph0ebus]

Ah, happy you like it ! I thought a face to the name in the title would liven things up a bit.

Added a calender for 1915, on which I'll be marking the days he sent a letter (updates every month).

It's early days yet, but the blog is slowly coming together.

For one of the forthcoming letters, in which he writes about being issued with a "brandspanking shiny blingy new" Mauser 98 rifle, accompanied by a "französisches Seitengewehr " (a French bajonet), I plan to put up the picture shown below of what I believe is a "brandspanking shiny blingy new" Mauser 98, together with its bajonet, because I doubt many readers will know what a Mauser looks like (I certainly don't !)

But is that a French bajonet ? And is it really a Mauser 98 ?

Google says it is, but then Google says many things.....

The bayonet looks quite similar to a German bayonet I have, but I am certainly no expert...

The rifle, I have no clue!

-Daniel

[JOVE23]

Ah, happy you like it ! I thought a face to the name in the title would liven things up a bit.

Added a calender for 1915, on which I'll be marking the days he sent a letter (updates every month).

It's early days yet, but the blog is slowly coming together.

For one of the forthcoming letters, in which he writes about being issued with a "brandspanking shiny blingy new" Mauser 98 rifle, accompanied by a "französisches Seitengewehr " (a French bajonet), I plan to put up the picture shown below of what I believe is a "brandspanking shiny blingy new" Mauser 98, together with its bajonet, because I doubt many readers will know what a Mauser looks like (I certainly don't !)

But is that a French bajonet ? And is it really a Mauser 98 ?

Google says it is, but then Google says many things.....

That is absolutely a Gewehr 98.

Here is something I found regarding the "französisches Seitengewehr," but I'll leave it up to you guys to determine whether or not it's a candidate:

http://www.bajonet.be/bajonetten/ger_duitsland_sg98.htm

[JWK]

Okay, so the rifle is the correct one, and the bajonet maybe/maybe not.

Never knew there were so many bajonets! Interesting link.

And ofcourse there's also the possibility it was then called a French bajonet, but it was in fact a German one.

Like "French fries" : they're not all made in France, are they?

[JOVE23]

My gut tells me the bayonet I linked to was the one Fritz was talking about, but I would think the rifle is the more important picture and that's the one you should feature if you're only going to feature one of them.

[JWK]

Hmm, I agree : the rifle is the most important part of the kit, and the bajonet, well, yes, "French Bajonet" could be a generic name for them used by recruits at the time.

And if, by any chance, it's the wrong bajonet pictured I'm sure the blog-readers will comment about that.

Re that rifle : what an enormous piece of kit to lug around the whole day!

And apparently they weren't "personal" once in the trenches:

Fritz mentions in one his letters months later that the rifles are just "up for grabs" in the trenches, you take the one nearest to you. Never knew that.

"I now have one that shoots a little to the right" he writes e.g

[Martin Feledziak]

Just to say keep up the good work - The blog is very well presented and will provide an important historical record for all to see. ( now and in the future )

Your idea of posting the updates exactly as Fritz wrote them 100 years to the day is also important.

For those readers who have not seen the blog - I would encourage you to have a look.

At this point Fritz is recording at the time of the Neuve-Chapelle offensive.

fritzlimbach.blogspot.com

[egbert]

.........Suggestion: it would be more "genuine" if you post your matrix German text ( the text you created as a word-file after "translating from Kurrent to present day script) always together with your English translation.

Egbert, oh that's a good suggestion!

I'll dig up my Kurrent-transcriptions, and add them. Does indeed ad a more genuine touch to it, and it makes it accessible for German speakers.

From the moment Frizt was at the front he started to write letters in "normal" script, so I didn't transcribe those in German, I just translated them there and then, so got my work cut out!....

Sadly I cannot follow the blog as the German language original text is still missing

[JWK]

Egbert,

if I have to believe the statistics of this blog then a French translation would be more in order, as most views come from there !

Upto post # 13 (when there still was that German transciption) the blog attracted the staggering total of 8 (Eight / Acht) views from Germany!

That combined with the total lack of interest from Fritz's former school in Wuppertal (They don't even have the courtesy to acknowdledge receipt of an e-mail!)

led to my executive decision to abandon the German transcription.

If nobody reads it why continue it? It costs me a lot of time and what for?

Funny though that since I posted that decision on the blog (10th february) nobody ever reacted on that.....

JW

[egbert]

Hi Jan, you cannot say that the good people of Wuppertal city have no interest. You might remember that the Wuppertal city chief archivist had indeed interest. I arranged the contact between you and him some time ago, but obviously it did not work out?

A Wuppertal school certainly is not the right institution because ......Fritz's school district in Wuppertal today is "taken over by - how do I say PC- mostly Islamic people", W. has sadly transformed into an Islamic stronghold. The school officials most likely have more urgent and present day matters to cover their curriculum than Fritz' historical letters.....

Also, it takes some time until a blog gathers interest. Maybe today you would count 800 instead of 8 blog clicks from Germany? Of course only when the German Joe Doe (Otto Normalverbraucher) can follow the blog in his mother language.

Another reason why I would post the original German text in parallel in this context would be the authenticity.

[Martin Feledziak]

Very Good Point Egbert,

We always judge things by our standards, thinking that "our" standards are obviously the right ones.

However my standards may not be your standards.

I have never considered that to Fritz his home town could "now" be a town that would not be a home town he would recognize, to which he could return, Or even wish to return to.

We should all share this planet but even in 2015 guns and bombs are the order of the day in some countries.

This will be lost in translation, but it is just like Walt said in Crocodile Dundee.

It is like the the two fleas arguing over who owns the dog they live on !!

So - Jan picked up the letters and is doing the right thing. To Honor his Name.

Martin.

[Martin Feledziak]

Jan,

I forgot to say that whatever you type is not lost , or not worthwhile, Everything you type is important and can be found by anyone searching for information. The internet is an incredible thing.

You may not think what you are doing has a value, but it does.

We all have keyboards and fingers and will find stuff out

That is how I landed on this forum when I searched for , 2 Feldkompanie Pionier Regiment 29 , I was researching my history and because people had submitted their stuff before, I dropped on it.

Number (3) below.

I have seen a number of old threads on this forum that suddenly come back to life when a "Google" is done.

[JWK]

Egbert/Martin

Yes, you’re right, there was some interest from the city of Wuppertal, but Herr Archivist did not strike as someone who was overjoyed by the prospect of getting Fritz’s letters.

But I had (and have) the feeling they’d be stored somewhere deep in the archives, mentioned in a listing of archived stuff, and available for any researcher to browse through (but only if that researcher is lucky enough to find that particular entry in the archives-listing!).

And regarding the Gymnasium Sedanstraße at Wuppertal-Barmen: yes, well, maybe “my wish was the father of the thought” (Dutch proverb: “you believe in something, because you want it to be true”), in that the German youth would be interested in what happened to their country/the country they live in 100 years ago, but then ofcourse they’re not. Just like any youth worldwide.

But thought of a solution (why didn't I think of this before?): Instead of me, a Holländer, transcribing Fritz’s German letters (and in the process making a mass of mistakes no doubt: missing umlauts, using normal letters when it should be capital letters, words ending in n where it should be m (or e instead of er or em or en) , etc etc etc) I’ll put up scans of his letters, so that Otto Normalverbraucher (I lóve that expression! What’s his wife called?) can read for himself what Fritz wrote home to his family.

Ànd enjoy Fritz’s handwriting at the same time, it’s like a gently flowing river.

You can’t get more authentic than thàt can you?

JW

[Martin Feledziak]

That is the ideal solution, you are doing most of that already with some of the letters just hidden by the envelope, but a full scan would be great.

I always like to see the envelope too !

The lady for Otto would have to be .....

Helga Normalfrau

[Martin Feledziak]

I have spotted this on sale on a popular internet site.

I know it has featured on this thread.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORIGINAL-period-GERMAN-WW1-PHOTOGRAPH-large-group-having-a-beer-/361239234993?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item541b8949b1

[Neil Mackenzie]

Great topic Jan - thank you so much for sharing Fritz's letters with us. Everything you have posted has been extremely interesting.

I will be out in Loos in the summer and will be remembering Fritz and all who died on 25 September.

Neil

[Neil Mackenzie]

From the map in post #51 the left hand border of the Prellbock Kompagnie is shown but not the right hand border. Do we think the line held by Fritz's unit extended to the north side of the canal or did it stop at the canal?

From the account of Kilby's VC action it sounds as if he was on the north side of the canal - there is no towpath on the south side (now at least). The 'Tortoise' looks as if it would have been a strongpoint as well and that lies across the tow path on the north side of the canal.

Neil

[JWK]

Neil,

thanks for the praise first of all. Much appreciated.

You háve found the blogspot I hope? On it all of Fritz's letters are transcribed (to the best of my abilities), and will be posted exactly 100 years after they were written.

re Capt. Kilby VC.

The " 16'ers " (Infanterie Regiment 16) held the positions from south of the canal down to Hohenzollern Redoubt (or thereabouts),

North of the canal was "56'ers" territory (Infanterie Regiment 56)

Opposite the 16'ers were the 2nd Sth Staffordshires, and as far as I know (but I'd be happy to be corrected) they too were only south of the canal.

Indeed if you look at the situation now there is no towpath on the south side of the canal (see attached picture, showing the canal looking west towards Cuinchy, from the bridge at Prellbock Stellung/Embankment Redoubt.)

But perhaps there was one of the south side 100 years ago?

That's where my lack of knowledge of "how the land lies" shows. Hope to remedy that this spring/summer during a visit to Auchy-les-Mines, with the help of a local guide.

The link between Capt. Kilby VC and Fritz is "dubious" at best, I only mentioned it because the description of events from both sides show many similarities.

But then for the same money indeed they could have been describing totally different actions, albeit within a short distance of each other..

I should check the Regimental History of the 56'ers (if that exists) to see what théy write about that day.

In the War diaries of the 2nd Sth Staffs the page for 25th september unfortunately is missing (at least it is in the copy I downloaded from the UK National Archives)

Canal de la Bassée, looking west from the bridge at the Prellbock Stellung/Embankment Redoubt, towards Cuinchy

The Prellbock Stellung of the 16'ers was on the left bank. The 56'ers held the right bank.

Jan Willem

[Ghazala]

This is an excellent thread. Thanks for sharing Jan.

[Martin Feledziak]

I have added the map for June 1916 - The year after Fritz was killed. I have added a ring giving a rough location.

(1:20k) 36C.NW

It would be difficult to know if he was south of the railway embankment slope . just on top of the embankment or over the slope towards the canal.

I have added the link to the interactive map which lets you zoom in and out or fade out the trench map leaving the current terrain.

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=50.5211&lon=2.7704&layers=101465011

[JWK]

Following on from post #218 :

He fell on September 25th 1915, on the La Bassee Canal, while in command of the company on the extreme left flank of the armies engaged at the Battle of Loos. His company was detailed to attack the railway triangle redoubt, a position of great strength immediately to the south of La Bassee. He had studied the ground carefully and was placed in charge of the operations at his own request. They had to advance down a narrow tow-path and along a railway embankment, which was exposed to fire in front and behind.

From : http://www.winchestercollegeatwar.com/archive/arthur-forbes-gordon-kilby/

There was/is a railwayline on the south side of the canal only

[Martin Feledziak]

I hope this explains better what I am thinking.

It also fits perfectly with the theory that is was Kilby and his men who advanced along that tiny path between the canal and the railway. There may not have been so much vegetation at that time.

But you will be able to tell us better when you go there later.

again From http://www.wincheste...s-gordon-kilby/

Attempts over several nights failed to locate his body (Kilby), but he was in fact buried by the enemy, together with one of his subalterns and thirteen men. His Commanding Officer wrote to Kilby’s father:

“A cross which the Germans have erected on the tow-path just below the embankment redoubt……

I bet the cross the Germans erected was just about at the point of the orange arrow below.

[Neil Mackenzie]

Thanks Jan and Martin. Thinking about it there must have been a towpath on both sides of the canal at one time. It would get quite messy if you only had one towpath and 2 barges coming towards each other.

Neil

Edit: This is assuming the barges were horse drawn at one time

[Martin Feledziak]

Not that it matters in the slightest

BUT

Even as an untrained WW1 observer with very little military knowledge and just taking the issues raised from this thread into account.

I will wager that the Fritz Limbach and Arthur Kilby events of 25 Sept 1915 are a complete match and they both lost their lives in the same action on that day.

There are too many similarities for it to have been a coincidence

it is just my view.

Martin

[Martin Feledziak]

Just reading through the latest blog page I see that Fritz and is chums were preparing reserve trenches.

They also included High voltage wire too.!!

This is the first time I have heard mention of such activity - were they making electrified perimeter defences ?