Germany : Fritz Limbach - letters from the front - 1915

[JWK]

And on that same icy-cold day, but warmed up, inside and out, by my visit to the cemetery, I went to Auchy-lez-la-Bassée (Now called Auchy-les-Mines), the place where Fritz died in the trenches nearby, on the banks of the canal.

X marks the spot more or less, give or take a few metres.

Thát side of the canal is inaccesible, the towpath is overgrown (and Accès Interdit), and on the top there’s a live railway (so most definitely Accès Interdit !).

Also no way in (that I could find) from the Cuinchy-side.

The towpath on the other side is accessible though, and tarmacked.

And this is the closest I could get to the spot marked “X” (Again: give or take a few metres), and coincidentally to the spot where Captain Kilby VC’s body was found.

Picture taken from the bridge between Auchy and Violaines looking west towards Cuinchy, so from just behind the German front-line looking towards Tommy’s front-line which was some 100 metres behind that ship in the distance (the locks at Cuinchy)

Looking east from the bridge you can, with a bit of imagination, make out the entrance to Auchy harbour (where Fritz made one his photographs). It is now blocked up.

Auchy harbour itself is on a Propriété Privée (Private property), so again Accès Interdit….

JW

[Martin Feledziak]

Well done JW

Glad to see you made it to the final resting place for Fritz.

I feel sure he is happy to have received a visit.

I feel confident that the date recorded on his cross is a day out and that he died on the next day, 25th September 1915.

I am also impressed that you made it to the battlefield where Fritz, Arthur and good many others were to perish.

I am sure that the accounts from the sources mentioned earlier in this thread are so similar that it just has to be the same incident.

Anyway you have served him well.

[egbert]

Well done Jan. You give Fritz Limbach, a former lost soul, his privacy as well as his human face back. Your visit to the tragic place where he took his final breath is the highlight of this remarkable story. This story is yours and Fritz' together. For both of you it will never end, You are now soul brothers by chance.

I applaud for such a great detective work and your devotion to reconstruct Fritz' short life.

Again- I bow my head!

[AliceF]

Hi,

Took myself the time to read most of the thread during the last days. Very moving, extremely interesting with a lot of details of the every day war life that I have never heard about before. Very impressing that you translated all the letters to English and published the original version on the blog. Fantastic!

I would probably keep the letters, better than if they vanish in some archive.

But do you know about this: http://www.museumsstiftung.de/briefsammlung/feldpost-erster-weltkrieg/ (sorry if I missed it and you already discussed it)?

Maybe they would be interested in the copies of the letter.

As I understood it, the collection contains 90.000 letters from several wars (?)

700 of the first world war letters are searchable in the database (the rest in the archive?)

The excel “Bestandskatalog” lists about 520 Persons (WW1) with ca. 7500 letters from soldiers and 2280 to soldiers (here the katalog: http://www.museumsstiftung.de/briefsammlung/feldpost-erster-weltkrieg/nutzung.html)

All in German....

Christine

[Martin Feledziak]

Just picked this item off the Facebooks's

South Staffordshire Regiment in the Great War -

I am fairly sure Kilby and Fritz died in the same incident on 25th September 1915.

The below account is from another mission that Kilby went out on.

In 1960, the former Company Sergeant-Major William Cox M.C., who had served with the 2nd Battalion, The South Staffordshire Regiment, wrote his memoirs. These are unpublished and the manuscript is held in the archives at the Staffordshire Regiment Museum. This is his description of the activities of Captain Arthur Forbes Gordon Kilby V.C., M.C., when the 2nd South Staffords were serving amongst the Brickstacks at Cuinchy in the Summer of 1915:

“He seemed to have a roving commission. He organised a small raiding party to go out and have a “look-see” at a German sap head, which was about mid-way in “No-Man’s Land”, we knew the place was only manned at night, so about 10.00 p.m. his party crawled out & lay down close to Gerry’s post (this officer could speak fluent German) listening. Afterwards, they moved into the back of the sap & surprised Gerry, brought in three men & a machine gun back to our trenches. One of the Germans was very astonished what Capt. Kilby told him what his father worked at & how many brothers and sisters he had. This officer seemed a restless soul. He had a German officer’s uniform & we knew of one visit he made into Gerry’s front line, he must have made several.”

[JWK]

Interesting!

The South Staffordshire Regiment arrived in Cuinchy in early August 1915.

There were apparently more men who spoke German

Fritz Limbach writes home on 9th September :

Not much news from here. Tommy still behaves well, because mother likes to hear that.

By the way they now reply when you call them. We call “Tommy” and they reply with “Fritz”, but also “Saupreusse” [Prussian swines] and the like.

There are a few amongst them who speak very good German.

Last night the following conversation:

-Tommy!

-Hallo Fritz, haben Sie gut geschlafen? (Very gentleman-like of them to address us with "Sie” [= you, formal] where we barbarians just address them with “Du” [= you, informal] without even thinking about it)

-Thank you Tommy, very well. You speak excellent German, where did you learn that?

-I learned it in Germany.

-Where have you been in Germany?

-Cologne, Berlin and Oberammergau in Bavaria.

-Well Tommy, come overhere, then we’ll go to Cologne together to get a glass of beer.

-Yes, but then you’ll start to shoot! But the German beer is excellent.

JW

[Martin Feledziak]

I did ask if there is any mention in the Cox papers relating to the events on the morning of the 25th September 1915.

Sadly The person who provided this little account did not know.

I think I will send an enquiry to the keepers of the source information.

[JWK]

Thanks for that!

Maybe some more pieces of the puzzle will fall into place!

I've sent an e-mail to the Staffordshire Regiment Museum, to sort of inform them about this infinitely tiny possibility of a (-as yet- tótally impossible to prove) possible "connection" between Fritz and Captain Kilby VC, with links to this thread, the blog, and the Flickr photostream, so let's see what they say (Unless they're already on this board ofcourse, and already know all the ins and outs!).

Have checked the Regimental History of the 16'ers for a mention of those 3 men and a MG captured, but alas nothing.

The 16'er's Scribe (or his editor, let's not forget that véry important person!) did not bother himself with those "daily occurances', he only focused on the big stuff.

But then the South Staffordshires's scribe also didn't report the incident.

JW

[JWK]

The Staffordshire Regiment Museum replied promptly, and they're véry interested in adding Fritz's letters & photographs to Captain Kilby VC's file.

Present day/future researchers can then make up their own minds about whether their deaths were related in some way (other than both being killed on the first day of the Battle of Loos at/near the Prellbock/Embankment Redoubt) is my feeling.

So I've just sent them a PDF copy of the Blog, an HTML copy of the blog, and a PDF copy of this thread.

That will keep them busy for a few days!

I díd ask them whether (the copies of) Fritz's letters would be a seperate entry in their catalogue, away from Captain Kilby VC.

After all, Fritz and his Regiment were opposite the Staffords for 2 months prior to 25th Sept. And maybe his letters/photographs can be of use to researchers researching the Sth Staffordshire Regiment as a whole.

Next item on the to-do list is scanning all of Fritz's photographs, and getting them organised in a PDF file. And then sending them off to Whittington.

The item on the to-do list áfter that is finding a suitable "final resting place" (Ewww, that sounds definite) for Fritz's letters.

Wuppertal City Archives is sort of out of the running for me at the moment (as I fear that there they'll be confined to a dark corner, and can only be found and researched if you absolútely know what you're looking for in the catalogue)

Maybe the Berlin Archives that Christina has mentioned in post #304, or maybe the VDK as they too hold an archive.

Pfff, it's been almost two years since I bought Fritz's letters, and he's stíll keeping me busy (but in a good way)! Bet he's having a good laugh up there.

JW

[Martin Feledziak]

That is excellent,

I am convinced that the both Fritz and Arthur endured that incident on the canal tow path. Fritz and his chums in that railway redoubt defending their line
and Arthur and his chums running up the canal tow path to attack it.

For me I would need someone to show me evidence that it could not have happened.

Also
Today In another thread I asked a question about map co-ordinates and it ended up with another possible puzzle.

if you have not already seen it have a look here.
 

Re Post 167

[Martin Feledziak]

Soldats Dans le jardin du chateau

le chateau de la sucrerie

La Sucrerie

Just having a look round current day Douvrin and wonder if this is the same Chateau .

It is in the grounds of the Sugar Factory on the trench map.

I have tagged the Chateau on the post just above.

[hainaut]

le chateau dans l enceinte de la sucrerie à était construit en 1927 il n'existait pas en 1915 ;le chateau se trouvait près de l église et reconstruit au meme endroit en 1927 il est repérer par MAIRIE sur google maps

[Martin Feledziak]

Merci hainaut.

I understand, you say that the Chateau in the grounds did not exist in 1915 and was not constructed until 1927.

The Chateau near to the church was rebuilt in the same spot in 1927.

Thank you.

[JWK]

Well, I sent copies of all I had about & from Fritz Limbach to the Staffordshire Regiment Museum, so they (or present day/future researchers) can now begin to figure out if & how (or: whether) Fritz and Captain Kilby VC were connected in some way.

That will keep them busy for a while!

Interesting thing I noted when i was translating for them the entry for 25th september 1915 in the IR16 Regimental History:

[After the enemy break-through of the German lines, just south of IR16 in the Marburger Jäger sector]

"Everyone available, runners, telephone operators, artillery guys, sappers, were deployed in the trenches to the south of Auchy-Haisnes, especially those facing “Fosse 8” and “Hohenzollern Werk” [= Hohenzollern Redoubt], which were both occupied by the enemy.

There it’s a motley crew of troops of all possible designations now, ready to defend the back of the Regiment’s sector against a further attack.

But the enemy, who would certainly have been successful here under the right command, instead advanced ever more eastward, thus finding himself under enfilade fire.

The day passes without it coming to the dreaded crisis."

Hmm, what if, eh?!

(And don't you just lóve the expression "kunterbuntem Durcheinander"? "A motley crew" doesn't quite have the same "melody" in it, does it?)

JW

[Martin Feledziak]

You posted before about an account of Kilby and the events of the morning of the 25th September written by Captain Lloyd of military intelligence,

http://www.europeana1914-1918.eu/en/contributions/5382#prettyPhoto

Lloyd does indicate that the 2nd and 19th divisions moved out of their trenches on either side of the La Bassee canal against the German strongholds

The object was to keep the Germans busy and prevent them from sending support to the Hohenzollern Redoubt and Loos sector.

Kilby and many others died but their objective wet met and they held the front line until the evening when they were given instructions to withdraw.

This is reflected in your post above where the Germans only held their defence, at Hohenzollern Redoubt, by use of the "Motley Crew". Because there was no other support to send.

I remain convinced that Fritz and Arthur died in the same incident.

I had a look for more information about Lloyd and came across this interesting article about a Propaganda unit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2313993/Winnie-Pooh-author-AA-Milnes-secret-role-writing-propaganda-British-military-intelligence-WW1.html

[Martin Feledziak]

I am going to wager that Bruce Hall, Lieutenant, was the subaltern buried alongside Kilby and the 13 others.

(as recorded by the Germans on their makeshift tribute.)

" the Germans erected a big cross between brick stacks and the Canal, inscribed: For King and Fatherland – Lieut. Kilby and Lieut. Hall, who died like heroes."

The below is from the Commonwealth wargraves web site

[hainaut]

http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht/?PPN=PPN688547796&PHYSID=PHYS_0040

pour informations

[Martin Feledziak]

Very interesting Link hainaut

Merci.

So sad to see the Church in Douvrin in ruins.

P.S

I was not aware that there was so much material available

I just need to learn German.

There must be hundreds of books in the virtual war library of Berlin.

http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/suche/?DC=krieg.1914.1918

[hainaut]

http://feldpost.hypotheses.org/tag/propaganda

un site très interessant

[Martin Feledziak]

Remembering today

Fritz LIMBACH, Arthur KILBY and the many many others, who died this day 101 years ago. The start of the battle of Loos.

[Martin Feledziak]

Remembering today

Fritz LIMBACH, Arthur KILBY and the many many others, who died this day 102 years ago. The start of the battle of Loos.

 

Edited 25 September , 2017 by Martin Feledziak

[JWK]

Remembering Fritz Limbach and all those who died 102 years ago today.

They are not forgotten.

[egbert]

R.I.P.

[Beechhill]

Thank you for helping us remember, JWK. Fritz' story certainly still lingers with me. 

May they rest in peace. 

/Dan 

[Martin Feledziak]

Of course I would look for his name on the ring of remembrance at Notre Dame De Lorette.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 August , 2018 by Martin Feledziak