Uncle George Posted 12 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Greatcoats in May? A very good point. The book I mention has three photographs on the same page (of the Proclamation being read at Devonport Guildhall, Stonehouse Town Hall and Plymouth Guildhall). At Stonehouse is a line of soldiers (or Royal Marines - then as now based at Stonehouse) in sunshine NOT wearing greatcoats, but a number of civilians, some in overcoats, some not. At Plymouth, more sunshine, civilians only, no overcoats. I am reluctant to infringe copyright, but will see if these photos are to be found online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 I received a book for Christmas - 'Plymouth's Great War - The Three Towns United in Conflict' (2014) by Chris Robinson. On page 18 is a cropped part of the photograph I posted at the head of this thread. It is a close-up of the figure on the steps of the Guildhall; because it doesn't include the Guildhall pillars or the lines of soldiers and policemen, it isn't obviously the same photograph. But the same photo it certainly is. My assumption that the photo is connected to the 1914 amalgamation of the Three Towns is now shown to be false. The book tells us that it is a photograph of the "Proclamation of King George V ... by Alderman Littleton, Mayor of Devonport ... 9 May 1910". My thanks again to all who contributed. History of the Leinsters records going to the funeral on 20th May 1910, entraining from Devonport on 19th May at midnight. see here Doubtless the other battalions went too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 I am reluctant to infringe copyright, but will see if these photos are to be found online. It is permissible under the fair dealing clause of UK Copyright law to show limited extracts for non-commercial research, review and discussion (which is what we are doing) as long as the source is acknowledged. This is how newspapers generally operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 12 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2015 History of the Leinsters records going to the coronation on 20th May 1910, entraining from Devonport on 19th May at midnight. see here Doubtless the other battalions went too. Thank you for posting this link. "Devonport ... one of the best stations in England." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 No greatcoats on display on 20th May at King Edward VII's funeral - here Incidentally the Kiaser and Archduke Franz Ferdinand both in attendance. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 12 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Photographs from ''Plymouth's Great War - the Three Towns United in Conflict". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 2nd Bn Sherwood Foresters - not sure if the Sherwood Foresters had the double scroll with Notts & Derby at the time Yes, from 1902 according to Ray Westlake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 2nd Bn Sherwood Foresters - not sure if the Sherwood Foresters had the double scroll with Notts & Derby at the time Yes, from 1902 according to Ray Westlake. Which would eliminate them. Northamptonshires had white facings and Leinsters had blue facings. In their history, the Leinsters make a bit of a song-and-dance about having their colours presented by Edward VII (before he was King). Given the declaration would have been a faily short affair, I suspect one of the battalions closest to the Town Hall was used - the Northamptonshires or the Leinsters. My speculation. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 According to Met Office official records, Southampton [my informed choice for best analogue] had a cool May 1910. Average day max Temp only 17.3 degs, average night min. 8.0 degrees, no frost, 34 mm rain total, and 219 hours sunshine. I can well imagine an early parade forming in greatcoat order ......... we have no info. Re. wind or rain easily available on a day by day basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Edward VII was previously the Prince of Wales. When the 100th Regt of Foot became the The Prince of Wale's (Royal Canadians) the the 17 year-old Prince presented the battalion's first set of colours. It was one of his first public engagements and I think the Regiment's new title referred to him as the then Prince of Wales. Not sure if he was the Colonel of the Regt then or at any time., but there certainly is a tenuous link between the recently deceased monarch and the Leinsters. The soon to be Geroge V was of course the Prince of Wales at the time. I wonder if the Leinsters, being Prince of Wales's had better reason to be on parade that day? Had it been any other battalion I suspect some noses might have been put out of joint. My speculation. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Greatcoats in May .............. I should say so! There was a nasty cold plunge. The warmest places in UK were only 10C = 50F in the SouthWest, and a fresh NW to N wind. This is about 10F below average. Not nice. LongJohns weather. This from the TIMES archive 8th May ........ and it was not going to warm up quickly either! No reason to discount 9 May on account dress, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Met Office report on May 1910 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 I think the swallows would either have put off arriving, or gone South again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 From post#14 Snipped Could it be this? The Times May 10th 1910 10d. King's BirthdayThe weather at Plymouth was so inclement that the ceremony was transferred to the inside of the Guildhall, the proclamation being afterwards read outside.[....snipped...]. The Mayor of Devonport read the proclamation in front of the Guildhall, the 1st Staffordshire Regiment providing a guard of honour with trumpeters. Not that I can see a trumpet in sight but could they be Staffs?? TEW TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 12 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2015 From post#14 Snipped TEW Edward died on May 6 1910. GeorgeV was born on June 3 (1865). He may, like our Queen have had a ceremonial birthday not on his actual birthday. But it does not seem likely that a ceremonial birthday would have been proclaimed a few days after the death of the old King. But it does seem likely that this proclamation reported in the 'Times' is the proclamation read on 9 May, proclaiming I suppose George's accession to the throne. But the weather, especially at Stonehouse, does not look inclement. This supposes that the proclamations were made on the same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 George, My apologies, I've just checked back to The Times I quoted and it is the proclamation to his accession to the throne and not his birthday, official or otherwise. Actually I think the official and un-official Royal birthdays stem from a need to have good weather for the Trooping of the Colour. With GV's being June there may have been no need for him to have 2 birthdays. Still no trumpeters?? TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 12 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2015 George, My apologies, I've just checked back to The Times I quoted and it is the proclamation to his accession to the throne and not his birthday, official or otherwise. Actually I think the official and un-official Royal birthdays stem from a need to have good weather for the Trooping of the Colour. With GV's being June there may have been no need for him to have 2 birthdays. Still no trumpeters?? TEW Clip.jpg No trumpeters to be seen in the photograph, but nevertheless the 'Times' names the 1st Staffs, so many thanks to you (and everyone else) for answering this question. Time to stop, I suppose: we are in danger of becoming (dread phrase) 'off topic'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 One online source suggests the 1st Bn Northamptonshire Regt did not arrive in Raglan Barracks until 1911, so it is possible that the 1st Bn South? North? Staffs was the battalion that preceded it. Given Raglan Barracks was about half a mile from the Guildhall and Crown Hill Barracaks is a few miles, I would be very surprised if the duty battalion was not based in Raglan Barracks. It is worth exploring exactly where the 1st Bn (South/North??) Staffs were in 1910. I sense you are getting closer. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 12 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2015 One online source suggests the 1st Bn Northamptonshire Regt did not arrive in Raglan Barracks until 1911, so it is possible that the 1st Bn South? North? Staffs was the battalion that preceded it. Given Raglan Barracks was about half a mile from the Guildhall and Crown Hill Barracaks is a few miles, I would be very surprised if the duty battalion was not based in Raglan Barracks. It is worth exploring exactly where the 1st Bn (South/North??) Staffs were in 1910. I sense you are getting closer. MG Yes, I have attached a map of Devonport. As you will see at this time (1860s I believe) it was a walled town. The walls came down in the 1880s but Devonport to this day is remarkably self-contained - it is not conceivable that the battalion was based at Crownhill. Raglan Barracks was built on the site of the old barracks marked on the map: the Guildhall is adjacent to Ker Street. (A stone's throw from each other, in other words.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Further evidence - A trawl of the British Newspaper Archives - which has the Exeter and Plymouth Gazette - reveals 1. 1st Bn South Staffordshire Regt arrived at South Raglan barracks on 2nd Oct 1908, taking over from the 3rd Bn Rifle Brigade. It also reveals that the 1st Bn South Staffordshires were still in Devonport on 18 August 1910. 2. 1st Bn Leinsters were scheduled to arrive in January 1909 3. 1st Bn East Surrey regt arrived on Thu 6th Nov 1908 at Crown Hill Barracks. Taking over from 2nd Bn Somerset Light Infantry. 4. Newpaper arcticle of Aug 1910 mentions the Plymouth garrison being emptied as the Brigade goes on manoeuvres. Battalions mentioned are: 1st Bn South Staffordshires 1st Bn Leinster Regt 1st Bn East Surrey Regt - Based on this evidence, I would be leaning heavily towards the 1st Bn South Stafforsdhire Regt given it was in Raglan Barracks (close) and I think TEW has clinched it with the newspaper report. Hats off. to TEW. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 12 January , 2015 Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Except for my erroneous King's Birthday gaff which may have put things on the wrong track back in AugustSome years ago I worked as an archaeologist, excavated in the Brickfields looking for the Glacis and other work in the Cumberland Block and Raglan Barracks, gatehouse. Shame to see what Raglan Barracks once was and what it looks like now!! TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 12 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 12 January , 2015 Except for my erroneous King's Birthday gaff which may have put things on the wrong track back in August Some years ago I worked as an archaeologist, excavated in the Brickfields looking for the Glacis and other work in the Cumberland Block and Raglan Barracks, gatehouse. Shame to see what Raglan Barracks once was and what it looks like now!! TEW How very interesting. Yes, Raglan gatehouse is now in a sorry state. http://www.devonportonline.co.uk/historic_devonport/buildings_historic/raglan-gatehouse/raglan-gatehouse.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 13 January , 2015 Share Posted 13 January , 2015 So does the panel conclude 1st S Staffs, proclamation parade, on a nasty cold 9th May 1910 from Raglan Barracks to the Devonport [Edit]. Guildhall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle George Posted 13 January , 2015 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2015 I am delighted and grateful to say that this would appear to have been established. Many thanks again to all. Except to say that it is Devonport Guildhall, not Plymouth Guildhall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 13 January , 2015 Share Posted 13 January , 2015 Duly edited thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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