Gunboat Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 Imperial Service Badges, Goat skin mohicans, slouch hats and woolly bunnets are one thing,.. Sam Sam I misread that as Woolly bunnies I thought I had missed something to be indignant about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 Sam I misread that as Woolly bunnies I thought I had missed something to be indignant about. I was going to put Woolly Tammys but that would have been worse, hairy women called Tammy rumming about the woods springs to mind Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 Sorry part 2 was a work of fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 Was the fur item worn on that helmet a 1916 " Brazilian" ? I still seek enlightenment about whether some of the woods entered by infantrymen in the Somme fighting were undamaged. Please don't think me pedantic for pointing out my surprise at seeing such intact timber. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 I have to admit to continuing to be annoyed by the use of the fur on the helmet. I defy anyone to show me another photograph of any other British or allied soldier making use of such a device on his helmet, other than the image already featured in the above post - which personally does not show someone wearing a furry attachment across his helmet. There are countless photographs of helmet wearing men - often with canvas helmet covers and very often huge group shots showing scores of men in helmets, but never do you see one with such a feature on his helmet, and this is why this particular aspect of the programme annoys me because of the way many viewing the scenes - especially the younger viewers, who might not know otherwise, are very likely to conclude that this was presumably a recognized practice amongst the men - I maintain it was not, indeed, I further surmise that if anyone had done such a thing to their helmet, they would have been ridiculed or bawled at until it was removed. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunboat Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 Was the fur item worn on that helmet a 1916 " Brazilian" ? Phil (PJA) I believe most helmets were worn "Hollywood" so to speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxi Posted 18 August , 2014 Share Posted 18 August , 2014 I watched the second episode tonight and really enjoyed it. When it had finished I noticed that 'Blackadder Goes Forth' was available to be seen on Gold tonight. For all its faults and inaccuracies, give me 'Our World War' over that mawkish heap of guano anytime! By the way, I bought 'Teenage Kicks' when it first came out and I am 57 now. Contemporary music? Er, yeah, ok daddyo. Maxi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8055Bell Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Trones wood was still very green when the Manchesters arrived. What's not accurate is the inferno of artillery fire from 3 directions during the day of 9th/10th July and after. Paddy Kennedy was in the same Bttn as Wm Hunt and other shot at dawn cases. He was also in a firing squad and almost certainly knew each other. The implication that absence in the Trones wood confusion was the reason for the court martial was either dreadfully inaccurate or artistic licence to cover Significant elements of Paddy's war in 1 Hour. I vote firm thanks to BBC for bringing this alive. Three great granddaughters of a Manchester Pal were firmly engaged throughout, even if their Dad was gritting his teeth at what I'll call abridging! If it helps remember 'our' Pal and many other men who fought in the Somme, I reckon Paddy & Grandad would approve. Tim Ps Teenage Kicks and Grandad is a bit of a challenge to conceive, but perhaps there was a bit more swagger before the enormity of the Somme changed or killed them. We'll never know. Pps there's A really good interview with Albert Hurst of the 17th Battalion as part of the IW M collection online. This vividly describes the action of the Manchester Btns and 2nd Royal Scots Fusiliers at Trones Wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsears Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 I really enjoyed it pleased to see some licence payers money spent on this subject matter. Certainly enjoyed the mix of more modern music scores that were used. I guess there will always be inconsistencies but I have to say the first one stood out for me over the second episode. Looking forward to this Thursdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 I have to admit to continuing to be annoyed by the use of the fur on the helmet. I defy anyone to show me another photograph of any other British or allied soldier making use of such a device on his helmet, other than the image already featured in the above post - which personally does not show someone wearing a furry attachment across his helmet. There are countless photographs of helmet wearing men - often with canvas helmet covers and very often huge group shots showing scores of men in helmets, but never do you see one with such a feature on his helmet, and this is why this particular aspect of the programme annoys me because of the way many viewing the scenes - especially the younger viewers, who might not know otherwise, are very likely to conclude that this was presumably a recognized practice amongst the men - I maintain it was not, indeed, I further surmise that if anyone had done such a thing to their helmet, they would have been ridiculed or bawled at until it was removed. David. David, There was something extremely incongruous about the adornment to that helmet.....I must admit. And yet, I have just been looking at a rather famous photograph from the Somme, depicting the battle of Morval in September 1916. I regret to say that I haven't learnt how to send a link, but you'll find this picture in Farrar Hockley's book THE SOMME, published in 1964. Unless I need a trip to Specsavers, one of the soldiers leaving the trenches, in the forefront of the picture, looks as if he's wearing something very simllar. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roughdiamond Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Oh you tease Phil! Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Sam, The photograph is famous. There must be pals who know the one I allude to. If anyone can find it, please send the link. I feel confident that if you google battle of Morval, you'll see the picture on Wiki. Sorry for teasing. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick63 Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Sam, The photograph is famous. There must be pals who know the one I allude to. If anyone can find it, please send the link. I feel confident that if you google battle of Morval, you'll see the picture on Wiki. Sorry for teasing. Phil (PJA) Second bloke from right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Yes ! Thanks ! Am I daft, or is he sporting a Brazilian, too ? Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Sam, The photograph is famous. There must be pals who know the one I allude to... Phil (PJA) Yes, it's the one in post 115! Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 The photo is well known and is a enlargement of the photo shown in post 115 - it's been discussed on the forum before now. It will almost certainly be the one used to inspire the fury adornment as used in the programme under discussion - but is it a fury adornment - I personally do not believe so. I believe it's the canvas helmet cover just in the process of coming adrift - bear in mind they are held on by a length of sting. Were it some sort of fury adornment or some sort of attempt at camouflage, I feel sure there would be plenty of other photographic examples, but I contest there aren't and I do not believe the soldiers of the day - even Canadians as featured here were individualist to the point of making their helmets stand out from the crowd. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunboat Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Yes ! Thanks ! Am I daft, or is he sporting a Brazilian, too ? Phil (PJA) I don't think this is the case - who in the production team would look at that and say "Hmmmm goatskin Mohican!" I think the giveaway is the fact that it's the same character brutally stabs the German to death Then before the final attack smears his face with mud. It's in my view all a metaphor for savagery and how do we invariably portray savagery with some form of tribal garb and war paint. So I don't hold that this picture is the reference at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Yes, it's the one in post 115! Moonraker Doh ! Sorry, folks...I hadn't realised that this has all been talked about before. That's the trouble with coming late to the party. Now I feel that I should be wearing a hat like that, too. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrette Posted 19 August , 2014 Share Posted 19 August , 2014 Just watched episode 2 and I found the shot ar dawn debate interesting (if a little one-sided). I could forgive the costume choices for the characterisation purposes, but I found intensely irritating that they shot most of it in the middle of winter. Each time I saw breath from speakers, or the fog, or the bare deciduous trees - I kept thinking the action had moved to another battle. It must have been a late decision to make this if they couldn't wait for spring at least. I'm sure battles must be different in summer, in full foliage. Not sure why most WWI films are always grey and cold. Norrette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_sole Posted 20 August , 2014 Share Posted 20 August , 2014 I liked both episodes. I get the use of modern parlance and modern music as devices to make a modern viewer relate to the characters more (Teenage Kicks is now hardly modern, but whatever). Actors in uniform tend to all look the same and can make the storyline confusing - this was a problem for me in Spielberg's The Pacific, so I also get why they are saddled with costume anachronisms like furry Mohican helmets. Calling corporals "sir" is just laziness on the part of scriptwriter and producer and inexcusable. All in all, a good effort though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevmc Posted 20 August , 2014 Share Posted 20 August , 2014 I liked both episodes. I get the use of modern parlance and modern music as devices to make a modern viewer relate to the characters more Martin There seems to be a great adverse reaction to "modern speak". I wonder if those who resent this would accept olde english if applied to programmes relating to medieval times etc. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulgranger Posted 20 August , 2014 Share Posted 20 August , 2014 On the question of whether or not Trones Wood would have looked quite so pristine, I was looking through Peter Barton's panoramic book 'Somme', and found two photos showing a German counterattack in progress in a wood, apparently in the campaign's early stages. It's not clear which wood is shown, but the two photos show shells exploding on the British positions, and then the attackers going in. There are no obvious signs of damage, no trees destroyed, and much evidence of foliage still in place, I think it's fair to accept that Trones would have looked very much the same as these photos, and thus as depicted in the programme, at the date it is set, and would not have been the wreck that it and the other woods later became.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 20 August , 2014 Share Posted 20 August , 2014 Martin There seems to be a great adverse reaction to "modern speak". I wonder if those who resent this would accept olde english if applied to programmes relating to medieval times etc. Kevin Yes, absolutely all Shakespeare should be as per the First Folio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 20 August , 2014 Share Posted 20 August , 2014 Part 3 is about a tank crew at the Battle of Amiens David So will the tank be a Chieftain or Crusader or a German leopold or tiger or , or,or any other particular era. I have only just watched first episode and thought it quite good except of course for the errors mentioned. The Sapper did call the Col, Corporal in the last scene, so got it eventually I often called our NCO's sir (or was that cur) L/Cpl slug being the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 20 August , 2014 Share Posted 20 August , 2014 So will the tank be a Chieftain or Crusader or a German leopold or tiger or , or,or any other particular era. It looks pretty close to the real thing to me http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04f8cw8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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