bkristof Posted 6 November , 2004 Share Posted 6 November , 2004 Aurel, it is not (only) teachers who have to tell / teach them how to behave, parents can do the trick too! And society in total. There is an interesting panel at Hooglede German cemetery saying: Kids are not alowed to be here alone... Maybe the CWGC should make simular things to place at the entrance of tyne cot. Telling people what is expected of them on the burial grounds. Or is it only the education at school who can change, raise children??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hone Posted 6 November , 2004 Share Posted 6 November , 2004 While I agree that kids scrambling over the Cross is to be discouraged, many people, myself included do climb up the steps to look over the cemetery. I have never thought this a sign of disrespect, indeed I have always assumed that this was the function of the steps carved in the side and the balconies beside the cross. King George V used the top of the pillbox as his vantage point during his famous visit to the Cemetery in 1922. Indeed, it has become a tradition during our short school Acts of Commemoration at Tyne Cot (our most recent wreath can be seen in Aurel's photograph) for one of my colleagues to read the description of the King's pilgrimage, taken from the souvenir book, while standing on one of the balconies looking over the 'sea of crosses' the King described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 6 November , 2004 Share Posted 6 November , 2004 I believe going up the stairs, just up to the "balconies" is ok, because i believe it is made to use it like that. It gives a good overview of the batle field. But climbing the cross itself looks wrong to me. There is also a clear difference between them in the structure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted 6 November , 2004 Share Posted 6 November , 2004 I'm 16 years old and have been inetersted in the Great War for many years and 2 years ago my school organised a trip to Ypres. I was expecting some of the group to act in the pictures shown by Aurel and generally being direspectful. As we went in to Atillery Wood cemetary the entire group was silent and deeply respectful as many Royal Welch Fusiliers are buried in the cemetary and of course a famous welsh poet. The answer is to try and get an entire group of children to realise that some of the people buried in the cemetary came from their area,town or village. From, Thomas McCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 6 November , 2004 Share Posted 6 November , 2004 Hi Thomas, Let there be no doubt : I did not wish to generalize. I have seen many hundreds of students in the Ypres area, also in Artillery Wood Cemetery (Welsh poet Hedd Wynn, in my village), and most of the time most of them were well-behaved. And if they were not, this does not mean that their behaviour was shocking. Just ... childish once in a while. No doubt about that. It's just that some (a minority indeed) sometimes, out of boredom or lack of interest, do not know how to behave respectfully, giving the others a bad name to (some) outsiders. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 6 November , 2004 Share Posted 6 November , 2004 This isn’t a direct response to Aurel’s posts. I can understand that the experience was disturbing to him and I see that he’s realistically philosophical, if regretful. I was addressed directly earlier in the thread and I’ve decided to comment. There is nothing in any of my posts which says that I think that it’s ok for anyone of whatever age to use military cemeteries or memorials as adventure playgrounds. Nor have I ever advocated minimising the human tragedy which is the Great War or making it into an entertainment. I have, however, pointed out that sometimes the conventions need to be learned. As a parallel: I’ve travelled through most of Israel and visited much of the West Bank, places with Christian, Jewish and Moslem significance. There were conventions of which I was unaware. Some people might say they were customs I’d pick up from observation, or that as an adult I ought to have known anyway, but I didn’t. I was very glad that a friend helped me by explaining what to do where. As I said before, there are many young British people who have no experience of organised religion and in particular, funerals. If they’ve been to a funeral at all, it might have been one which attempted to demystify death and funerals by including a celebratory element and requesting no black and no solemnity. (Whether this is to one’s personal taste or not, it happens.) Young Britons live in a very immediate culture and a fairly loud one. They expect to be able to communicate immediately and to see almost instant results from their experiences. They are also capable of immense compassion almost to the point of sentimentality, tremendous caring and an intense sense of injustice. They’re capable of deep engagement and perceptive analytical thought. And, as young people always have, they question, and so they ought. The point is, to me, that these facets need to be drawn together. It’s unrealistic to expect them to know instinctively what is appropriate: they need guidance and they need something to draw them into the situation (such as the identification activities some people, such as Thomas, have mentioned). Nigel is quite right; some will be there as a skive. Some accompanying teachers will be there because anything is preferable to being in a school day in day out. Students will pick up on these signals. Society is not at the point of disintegration over this issue, but people need to be aware that today’s students are a generation different from many of us and thus even further than we are from knowing anyone with any connection with a very distant historical event. We are apparently expecting them connately to display emotion or solemnity or this nebulous concept, respect, for something dating from another world. It isn’t realistic to say that they must ‘respect’ something simply because someone tells them to. Of course I think visitors should be thoughtful in the resting places of thousands of human bodies. Of course they should show due regard for the feelings and needs of other visitors. I suggest, though, that intuition is not always innate awareness of what sensitive behaviour means. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 6 November , 2004 Share Posted 6 November , 2004 Gwyn is right. Many young people do need some kind of guidance as they will not always know - instinctively - what other people expect of them, and they might never have been told. I've always found that the young people I have guided want to be thought well of, and have been more than willing to live up to other people's expectations, provided you tell them what other people's expectations are. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 7 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2004 I see to much collegues who think their job is just guiding: well, it isn't. Guiding is much more than explaining some history and then set your audience free. This quote comes from the message with wich I opened the thread. The pictures Aurel took were one of the reasons to start this discussion (although the (frequent) climbing on the Cross of Sacrifice alone wouldn't provoke me enough, I've seen worser things ). It makes me happy that a few weeks and many messages later the essential point of the subject is emphasized again: those who are expected to take their responsability should be aware of the importance of their task and act consequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 7 November , 2004 Share Posted 7 November , 2004 And if I may add just one thing explaining why I posted the photos... It certainly was not to tell the world what outrageous things happen(ed) at Tyne Cot Cemetery, or to utter my indignation. I just happened to be at Tyne Cot Cemetery that afternoon (last Friday) asked so in order to take a few photos of a small ceremony that took place there, a New Zealand delegation visiting the Salient and Tyne Cot Cemetery (if interested, see http://www.wo1.be/ned/evenementen/erbij/20...e0511/body1.htm and also because I had promised to take photos of a few dozen of headstones for a Forum member. And passing the Cross of Sacrifice, having my camera with me, and remembering that there was a thread on this subject on the forum .... But again : - these photos were not an example of blatant disrespectful behaviour. There may have been worse, as Erwin said. (And who knows, not only by school children ; think of the wedding photo shoots mentioned in a thread some months or a year ago that caused some commotion.) - 99% of school children behaviour is OK. But as we all know, it's that 1% that ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christine liava'a Posted 7 November , 2004 Share Posted 7 November , 2004 a few photos of a small ceremony that took place there, a New Zealand delegation visiting the Salient and Tyne Cot Cemetery (if interested, see http://www.wo1.be/ned/evenementen/erbij/20...e0511/body1.htm Presumably this ceremony was to do with the disinterrment of the NZ unknown Warrior. Thank you for the photographs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 7 November , 2004 Share Posted 7 November , 2004 a few photos of a small ceremony that took place there, a New Zealand delegation visiting the Salient and Tyne Cot Cemetery (if interested, see http://www.wo1.be/ned/evenementen/erbij/20...e0511/body1.htm Presumably this ceremony was to do with the disinterrment of the NZ unknown Warrior. Thank you for the photographs Christine, Sorry I don't know. But being on the Western Front I suppose the delegation made use of the opportunity to visit Zonnebeke/Passendale as well. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 7 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2004 a few photos of a small ceremony that took place there, a New Zealand delegation visiting the Salient and Tyne Cot Cemetery (if interested, see http://www.wo1.be/ned/evenementen/erbij/20...e0511/body1.htm Presumably this ceremony was to do with the disinterrment of the NZ unknown Warrior. Thank you for the photographs Hi Christine What's this story about disinterment of the NZ unknown warrior about? Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 7 November , 2004 Share Posted 7 November , 2004 Erwin, See http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showt...2388&hl=warrior With several links. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 8 November , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2004 Thanks Aurel Very informative! Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 Actually I have not read one post on this entire thread, but thought I had something to contribute. I've seen it grow over the past few weeks and can only imagine the 'horror' stories of what some people are doing out there. However the reason I think I can contribute at this point is because yesterday my roommate, dog, and I had a great hike through the Manassas Battlefield. Everyone was behaving and enjoying themselves.... people on horses, runners, seniors out on a bus tour, plenty of other dog walkers. I am sure the men who fought and died there almost 150 years ago gave no thought to what would happen this many years later, but I am sure they would be happy to know that so many people could get out an enjoy such a beautiful fall day. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrick Posted 8 November , 2004 Share Posted 8 November , 2004 I am still baffled with all the politicall corectness ,the patience,the cultivated philosophical dr.spock 70ties parenthood must members intend to show. It took me awhile to respond again seeing the fury of many By not threatning with retalliacience to gravedesacrificers. Still think i did the right think given the circomstance. Would ive been mastering the lingo...yes i would give them an other excample threat like... is your grandmother buried nextby?? would like to visit it and careve my name on it. Thats how personal i see it. coo-ee patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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