BatterySergeantMajor Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 As a battlefield guide I am becoming increasingly sensitive on visitors who do not behave whilst visiting the battlefields of the Great War (and other conflicts). I am often touring around with schools, and the differences between them are striking. Some are very wel watched over by their teachers, for others it is just a stop on their way to Disneyland or similar fun parks. Running through the cemeteries and the graves, crawling on the cross of sacrifice on Tyne Cot, yelling and jumping on the flat grave stones in Langemark: this is just a selection of frequently behaviour . Well, I decided that for me it is enough. When my group does not behave, I 'll tell them, even if the adults who are with them and who should be the primary responsibles are not happy with my remarks. Last friday I was on Langemark with a Dutch school group. Not much problems with them. Another Dutch group was just playing, running over the graves, even fighting on the cemetery: I told them clearly to leave the cemetery and then went to their teacher to tell him he should take his responsability . Other people are visiting these sites to meditate and remember. They should be given the opportunity to do that. It is bad enough that I should explain this to other adults, especially if they are trained to educate people; I see to much collegues who think their job is just guiding: well, it isn't. Guiding is much more than explaining some history and then set your audience free. About the example of the Dutch youngsters; the same happens with British and Belgian groups. Maybe the Ministery of Education should think over again if the schools should be obliged to visit the battlefields? I will say this clearly: only when all the battlefield guides will take their responsability things will improve. Those who are just thinking it is a money job should do something else. So if you see a grumpy old guide (I'm 45) : it is me, and I'm not ashamed of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Reeves Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 Good for you, BSM. Kids will be kids on occasion - but it's up to the adults to set them straight. Shame on those that don't take responsibility for their charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 was at Theivpal Memorial earlier this year with a leger guide who sorted out a British school group who were misbehaving - I was pleased with his attitude & if I see like behaviour again I will react in the same way. Ive got a relation commemorated at Tyne Cot so I completely understand all The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredJCarss Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 Good for you!!!!! Unfortunately in this day and age you are not allowed to clip the Bu....ers round the ears or kick their a...es. I hate political correctness and think that it is just a lack of good manners that this happens. I have spoken to teachers when my visit to a cemetery coincides with a school party with a full dose of hormones (didnt have them in my day) as an excuse. Some groups are great but some ........ Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 Unfortunately in this day and age you are not allowed to clip the Bu....ers round the ears or kick their a...es. Its Ok if there is no witnesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 More power to you BSM. Well done. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 I think it's just a question of values and manners, the world is changing, and not for the better i think. Lets not be too hasty though, bumped into various school groups in cemeteries on the Western Front and 99.9% of them have shown alot of respect and decorum in these places. The laughter of young children...... Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 I think it's just a question of values and manners, the world is changing, and not for the better i think. Lets not be too hasty though, bumped into various school groups in cemeteries on the Western Front and 99.9% of them have shown alot of respect and decorum in these places. The laughter of young children...... Chris. I have been impressed by the school groups who lay wreaths at the Menin Gate ceremony...so there is some good out there All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientpoints Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 Sign of the times unfortunately, just a gradual decline of discipline & respect over the generations (plus various regulations stopping any kind of enforced discipline) but good for you for making a point! Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsms Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 Sadly Ryan is probably right, but if enough people make a stand then standards can hopefully be maintained. It is a difficult subject though, because in a group of disinterested people on their way to Disneyland, there may be just one to whom it makes a difference and they start to take an interest... the result is another person to carry on the interest and the memory. I'm currently arranging my first trip to a battlefield, the Somme, for next April. If I saw such behaviour I hope that I would speak up. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 I am a guide + a teacher. I teach kids with no manners, disbehaviour, caracteristic problems. They are in the school were i work for that reason. BUT last year we did a battlefield tour for history lesson. AND ALL had correct behaviour... What i did? No miracles, but i explained them what we would visit and compared it to a civilian cemetery. I also made a deal with them before we went. Disbehaviour = NO SCHOOL TRIP (at the end of the year, a fun trip, swimming etc.) Also i made them a few days before interested in what WW1 was. I was astonished of the respect my " little criminals" (they are..) had. Maybe I had a lot of luck, or maybe I could give them a bit of my respect and passion for WW1 and all that happend. Kids will be kids, but it are the growen up who need to give them examples. Unfortunaly some adults forget that and don't care... Greets, kristof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 Lets not be too hasty though, bumped into various school groups in cemeteries on the Western Front and 99.9% of them have shown alot of respect and decorum in these places. I agree. I'm sure there must be some gooduns around somewhere. RObbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 How about a bit of child slycology? If they play-up in one cemetery, park the bus a mile or so away from the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 10 October , 2004 Share Posted 10 October , 2004 How about a bit of child slycology? If they play-up in one cemetery, park the bus a mile or so away from the next. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 11 October , 2004 Admin Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Its not only kids, I was at Thiepval one July 1st, stood behind a school party, well behaved and respectful, in fact I told their teacher how impressed I was by them. However, 2 middle aged guys stood near me chatted and laughed all through the service. Wayne was at Thiepval with a tour party once and one guy got his mobile out and phoned home..........! Didn't go down very well with Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gem22 Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 we held him back from the group took him into the cells at poperinge and punch him several time in the gut. he didnt talk much after Trenchy You're a thug. No matter how what the lad said, or how much he upset you, you and your mates were out of order. What you did was totally wrong and I hope that the other members of the Forum find your actions as reprehensible as I do. I do not condone the misbehaviour of youngsters but beating them up is not the answer. Give them a good boll***ing by all means but NEVER resort to violence. Apart from anything else you risk being charged with assault; and as you've confessed to your crime on this Forum you could hardly deny any charges brought against you. You've shown yourself to be as bad as the lad you beat up and how brave it was of you to take two pals with you. I am utterly disappointed in you. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 how brave it was of you to take two pals with you. I've lost count of the times I've witnessed groups of 'men' beating up a single victim and it thoroughly sickens me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchwalker Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 im sorry pals i was young. But most of all it sickened my friend who we did it for reasons i cant say. i am sorry pal i have relised that the iddiots who we see on the battlefield dont have any idea of what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gem22 Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Trench Apolgy accepted Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 im sorry pals i was young. But most of all it sickened my friend who we did it for reasons i cant say. i am sorry pal i have relised that the iddiots who we see on the battlefield dont have any idea of what happened It's OK Trenchie. You're forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrick Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Trench.. Mate. Should i say tut tut... Well next time put on a red cap. Then your legalised... These guys were known to bash the one and other other then for fun. I know its hard to control yourself iff you see things like this. I visited a roadsite cemetery on my way to the last day of the mons retreate this year and found a youngster getting out his pocket knife and gigled to his friend whilst trying to carve on the back of a headstone. Went over and threatened to carve my name on his chest iff he continiued. The ****** spoke french but understood nevertheless. reported him to his teacher who took the guy by his neck and escorted him to the bus. Never understood the apoligies from the teacher but its a problem for them too iff youve got a large group and to less adult. coo-ee patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Unfortunately in this day and age you are not allowed to clip the Bu....ers round the ears or kick their a...es. I hate political correctness And what sort of message would this behaviour give to them? That assault and bullying by adults is ok (provided no-one sees)? I cannot see how it would engender any feelings of respect or reflectiveness in the young people so attacked. Rather, they would come away from the place with deep feelings of anger, resentment, hatred and possibly with physical injury too. Further, you can’t predict the long-term psychiatric implications for a person who is the victim of an assault, physical or mental – which is what you are proposing, however you gloss it by opting out under the shield of condemning ‘political correctness’. Young people are perfectly capable of responding to atmosphere, mood, human tragedy and emotional cost if they go to these places properly prepared and accompanied by adults to whom the experience means something and who have thought through why they’re taking the students to share in it. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Unfortunately too much political correctness has practically ruined today's youngsters. There's no respect either to people of any age or property. Schools, where most of us learnt correct behaviour, have their hands tied and have to resort to "appropriate" essays as a means to correct bad behaviour, kids "know their rights" and use this to their advantage. Teachers are running scared of their pupils. At my lad's school the builders working on a new block during the summer were expressly forbidden to remove their shirts for fear of complaints from parents, political correctness gone mad. In my village the car park is being closed at 5pm to prevent gangs of youths from congregating there in the evenings where local residents are abused and taunted, the toilets in the car park have been closed to prevent damage and CCTV has had to be installed to prevent damage and grafitti at the local shopping parade (ie a pub, a mini supermarket and a post office - which has now closed to improve the service? And this in rural and "affluent" Hampshire. I could go on as no doubt could many others. No wonder so many people are leaving this country to live abroad, me included. Perhaps the last to leave England would switch the lights out. And now I've got that off my chest, I'll adjust my tin hat and take the PC flak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 It's always sad when people show disrespect (as opposed to simple high spirits). And I think, of all the previous posts, Kristof gets it most right. If it is explained to young people what they are going to see, the context and the reason for the need for them to show respect, then the vast majority will show respect and behave well. Young people are no different from us older people - they are only younger - like we once were. And it seems to be that for some of us older people it's OK to be violent towards children. And that gets respect, eh? Funny old world, innit? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 11 October , 2004 Share Posted 11 October , 2004 Interesting signature, John, especially in the context of a thread condemning young people. He was 22, wasn't he? Like it. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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