NIGEL Posted 12 October , 2004 Share Posted 12 October , 2004 Actually Pat my school was like that when i was there, i truly put it down to some of the teachers who were just leaving there hippy times behind, i remember one who kept playing " lucy in the sky with diamonds " and wanted us to write what we thought it was all about, how the hell should we know when the beatles didnt even know-----is it any wonder kids arent interested in things when you have things like that going on ? Our history teacher was great though, especially after his liquid lunch in the railway tavern in pelsall near walsall, you may laugh but i can still remember my history after 30 odd years, so that just shows you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkristof Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 As teacher I better not react on the fact that it is all the teachers fault.... Try something new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 Try something new! Geez Kris! I gave it my best shot! Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterySergeantMajor Posted 13 October , 2004 Author Share Posted 13 October , 2004 This is actually how Gwyn reacted: Young people are perfectly capable of responding to atmosphere, mood, human tragedy and emotional cost if they go to these places properly prepared and accompanied by adults to whom the experience means something and who have thought through why they’re taking the students to share in it. And I would point out that your initial post contains four paragraphs critical of young people’s behaviour. Gwyn To Gwyn 1)If you don't live in the Salient area, I probably don't know you. But even without knowing you I have the impression that some things are taken too personally. I will take my part of responsability in this: English is not my mother language, so this may probably have resulted in not too well chosen ways of bringing in arguments. If this is the case (I don't know, but you will ) I apologise for that. I surely want to avoid to go in the middle of Wembley, Colliseum or whatever to fight out our dispute. Being busy with the Great War should learn us something! 2)It should be clear that I fully agree with the first part of your quote. 3)Having said that, it is quite obvious that we do not agree upon the rest of my initial and following texts. I take notice of your point of view, but think I set out clearly enough why I do not share that vision. In order to avoid further stirring up our dispute I won't go on in this again 4)I will try to stay humble:it is not me who should decide how far a thread can lead, but the webmasters. I do not want to prevent anyone to bring in new arguments, I even haven't the right to do that. I want to prevent hard feelings. Maybe we see each other one day somewhere in the battlefield, I'll offer you a Rodenbach (beer of my home city) and you tell me something about your wonderful local ales. Maybe we"ll agree better on that subject. Erwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 WW1 is just ancient History. Maybe they need the conflict to be modernised. I agree with you. But isnt that what all of us who are particularly interested in the subject do all the time. Surely, we interpret the history in the light of our own knowledge, experience and research. If we do not do that, then it really does become ancient irrelevent history. For example, many of the Stockport men I have researched worked in the cotton mills or in hat-making. We probably have some sort of understanding what that means. But if I had told you that many worked as "cotton doublers" or "hatters plankers", I suspect you wouldnt have a clue what I was on about. And, surely, the concept of "respect" has changed over the years. Not better. Not worse. Just changed. In the ancient past, when I was a lad, there was a phrase that you should have respect for your "elders and betters". How laughable today. Not least because, as I've got older, there are fewer who are "elder". Surely that doesnt mean there are equally more younger folk that I don't need to respect. And "betters".....don't get me started on that track. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 May I enter a different perspective on this but argue it from the fact that I have an Uncle in a "Known Grave" and another hopefully in an "Unknown One" In many previous Wars the Casualties were buried in mass pits and all there is now to mark them is a Single Grave Marker in a large open field or Park. In the War the decision was made to where possible have an individual Grave and the result as we know are the many Cemeteries dotted all over the World.I make no distinction between friend and foe. This individual recognition results in the feelings that are being expressed by us today who are close to the War but equally is not shared by the majority who are not as close. I am not sure how we can impose on others the deep feeling we have but I would be content to think that regardless how solemnly visitors view the Cemteries,subject to the points already expressed about vandalism,etc.These visitors take away the reality of the human loss that occurred and strive to ensure it never happens again. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 Kristof i didnt mean that its all teachers fault, i meant that some teachers gained your attention and others didnt, i dont know what it is, but it always seemed that the same teachers held peoples attention, and the same ones had trouble holding anybodies attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted 13 October , 2004 Share Posted 13 October , 2004 Having just noticed this thread I would like to say well done BSM, individuals not acting in a responsible or respectful way should be spoken to and if they are offended then so be it. I have taken numerous groups of soldiers and officer cadets to battlefields and cemeteries on the western front and have only had cause to speak to other visitors once, mobile phones being the cause! As mentioned in one of the other posts I find that with the youngsters I take (17-20 yrs old, not strictly young but certainly younger than me!!) there is often a lack of real interest in why they are there. They often see it as a payed duty free trip! To overcome this I try and find a casualty with the same Surname as them and give them a copy of the CWGC record for that individual, also making them present a short speach to the rest of the group tends to focus the mind and make them realise why we are there and why we must remember those that lie there forever more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 I cannot in any way agree with the notion that children's misbehavior is possibly due to a lack of interest because of uninspired teaching (either at school or elsewhere). Nor do I agree that it needs children to be made aware of what the cemeteries stand for before we should expect their good behavior. It doesn't matter whether these kids (or adults for that matter) are interested in history, WW1 etc etc. It is a pure lack of respect and it is becoming far too prevelant in the youth of today. We are not talking about new born babies here and I am certain that they are all aware of what a cemetery is and why other people visit them - hence they should show the proper respect not only for those buried there but also for those visiting. It should not matter if they are interested themselves!! A little thought for others instead of this "I don't care about anyone else but myself' attitude would go a long long way. I will admit that perhaps I am a bit jaded after 18 years in my job (copper - my wife calls me a cold heartless b*****d) but I still wonder about the future of the world when I see the attitude of the youth of today. Maybe I'm only seeing the worst side of it. Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 G'day Tim Somewhere there is a quotation, from Socrates, or Plato, or one of their mates, which expresses similar sentiments. Against all the odds, the world has survived, and some places are still OK. When we look at the eras of Bobby-soxers, Bodgies & Widgies, Mods & Rockers, Hippies, Punk etc., the common outlook, as a consequence of the actions of "the youth of today" was always pretty grim. Hell, the civilised world has even survived Larwood, Snow, Botham & anything else the Poms could throw at us. Give the kids a break. They really do have a grim future. Even if they survive, they will end up Grumpy Old or Heartless or woteva, and they will have the Youth of Termorrer to put up with. and make them yearn for the good old days ooRoo Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 On my first visit to Gallipoli in 1997 we hired a local Turkish guide to take us around the battlefields. When we came to Chunuk Bair there was a group of Turkish schoolchildren running about and generally being children. Our guide boomed out at them in Turkish and immediately they stopped skylarking and for the next 20 minutes he took the kids (and their teachers) through the history of the area and the blood that was spilt by the Turks & allies in that vincinity. We were watching for most of that time and the kids eyes never left our guides face. They were almost spellbound with the tales of Mustafa Kemal and the August actions. The Raki from that tour has killed many of my brain cells but that memory has always stuck with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 You did a lot better than I did mate. The highlight of trip to Canada was to be Gallipoli. We had a 'commercial' car tour from Istanbul to Gallipoli, Troy & return. The driver spoke no English, the guide confessed that Troy was his 'area' & would appreciate any contacts I could give him so he could learn about Gallipoli. I had a swim at Anzac Cove, a quiet half hour at Lone Pine and ten minutes at Helles. The guide got a bit miffed when I couldn't raise much interest in a Trojan Horse made out of sticks. Two full days for that! There was one great thing, except for the Lone Pine Memorial, we virtually had the place to ourselves, and it was eerie! oo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 And, surely, the concept of "respect" has changed over the years. Not better. Not worse. Just changed. In the ancient past, when I was a lad, there was a phrase that you should have respect for your "elders and betters". How laughable today. Not least because, as I've got older, there are fewer who are "elder". Surely that doesnt mean there are equally more younger folk that I don't need to respect. And "betters".....don't get me started on that track. John Ah Yes! I remember it well. As a 15 year old on his first day of work in a BIG Government Office, I was placed in the domain of an old Boiler who had apparently made it off the bottom rung. She was intent on firmly establishing the pecking order, and gave instructions as to behaviour in front of my Superior Officers. An elderly gentleman later sought me out. I remember his words verbatum. "Son, today everyone is your Senior Officer. Whether any one of them is your Superior, is entirely up to you". ooRoo Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 Tim says--------- I will admit that perhaps I am a bit jaded after 18 years in my job (copper - my wife calls me a cold heartless b*****d) but I still wonder about the future of the world when I see the attitude of the youth of today. Maybe I'm only seeing the worst side of it. Tim L. Or the true side of it !!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dycer Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 Why do we have to be so negative about the future generation? I can remember my Father(ex-Royal Scot and 36 years in Fife Police) despairing when he could no longer prevent me growing long hair and listening to 60's music(his taste Gilbert and Sullivan,etc). I've got to my mid-50's and always managed to stay on the right side of the Law,etc. My Son now,spends his spare-time on his Playstation and I cannot bear to listen to the Darkness! Should I really worry about his future? George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 You did a lot better than I did mate. He was a great old guide & seemed to know his stuff, though he also took us to that pile of splinters at Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark A Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 Spot on George/Dycer! From mods and rockers, ravers to racers, every generation seems to get in a moral panic about their "youth problem". There seems to be an inherent fear of teenagers... it seems to kick in just about the time you turn thirty or you if you happen to be a journalist for the Daily Mail. My dad despaired of me wanting to have my hair in dreadlocks, the punk rock I listened to and the fact that I wasn't doing well in school. Now I've got short back and sides, a child, a dog and I ended up at Nottingham University. I still listen to punk rock though. As teemagers might say: Lighten up man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 Our son told us he was an anarchist and was going to be a new Age Traveller - circa 16 years old. At 18 he insisted on doing Theology at university. At 27 he got married, insisted that it be a church wedding and with everyone in morning dress! Now he has a daughter that he more than dotes on (I don't think the mother every gets to touch it). Oh, and don't mention anarchists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 14 October , 2004 Share Posted 14 October , 2004 when he could no longer prevent me growing long hair totally baffled my parents - went & joined the army for 11 years Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonza Posted 16 October , 2004 Share Posted 16 October , 2004 Had there been a little bit more of "Live & Let Live" there may have been a lot less of "The Killin & Dyin ... All done in vain" Don't think the Hit*** Youth program was a resounding success. My view is "Get orf their backs", If they're lucky/unlucky they'll end up here. ooRoo Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 5 November , 2004 Share Posted 5 November , 2004 Please do not think I want to dredge up this thread for no specific reason. Not to add my personal frustration. Only to add some illustration. Though these photos are not really spectacular, I know. I have seen worse... This afternoon I happened to be at Tyne Cot Cemetery (Zonnebeke - Passendale) to take some headstone photos for a Forum member (Hi Jimmy !), and I couldn't help noticing the coachloads of school children. There were 3 or 4 coaches at any moment (between 2 pm and 4 pm that is). I also wanted to take a photo of the Cross of Sacrifice. That is, with no visitors on it. But this was simply impossible. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 5 November , 2004 Share Posted 5 November , 2004 A few minutes later my heart jumped for joy, for a teacher walked up the aisle (bottom right). "Have you forgotten what I told you ?!". His voice sounded angry. But only a bit. But it helped. A bit. After a few minutes or so. Five I think. And then they were gone. Because the coach was about to leave. (From Bristol, I noticed later. But that is not relevant... But by then others had come and climbed the cross. And no teachers in sight... Aurel (And I'm not a grumpy old man. When I was young I could not resist climbing 'things' either. But we did not forget that if the teacher had told us ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 5 November , 2004 Share Posted 5 November , 2004 That's absolutely pitiful, I have never seen it that bad there or any war cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 5 November , 2004 Share Posted 5 November , 2004 Aurel Unfortunately, as you know, for "tourists" (who may not be wise about these matters), the high point of the cross is a great place for a picture of the cemetery. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 5 November , 2004 Share Posted 5 November , 2004 Aurel Unfortunately, as you know, for "tourists" (who may not be wise about these matters), the high point of the cross is a great place for a picture of the cemetery. John John, I agree. However, none of these youngsters took pictures. Besides, taking a picture does not take more than 5 seconds, a lot shorter than 5 minutes or more. Personally I myself would not feel too indignant about that sort of behaviour, maybe less indignant than many UK or other foreign visitors. (The reason may be that we are kind of used to seeing these things over here. And I know, children will be children...) I think it's the teachers who should make very clear, before entering the cemetery that they should not ... And that other cemetery visitors may find this sort of behaviour disrespectful. Let me add that apart from this that afternoon I have certainly not seen any other signs of disrespect. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now