Christina Holstein Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 Here's a link to a short report about remains found today on the site of Fleury Memorial musuem, Verdun. As of today there seem to be few bones but various other items, including a watch but no identity disc. The diggers have also uncovered the remains of Fleury station and some rails. I don't know any more at the moment but I'll keep you posted if I hear any more. The remains are with the pathologist at the moment. http://www.estrepublicain.fr/fil-info/2014/01/23/des-ossements-decouverts-sur-le-chantier-du-memorial-de-verdun Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 23 January , 2014 Share Posted 23 January , 2014 Thanks for this Christina, I'm sure I've read what the Fleury building work is for elsewhere but I've just had a quick look and can't find it. Can you remind me? I've always been intrigued by the station and the railway line crossing the battlefield (just as with the line that ran across the Somme battlefield). I thought the current museum was on the site of the station. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Pete, Fleury Memorial is undergoing extension and refurbishment. The collection has been moved out. The whole building is being extended upwards and downwards. It is supposed to be ready for autumn 2015. The station buildings were behind where the Memorial now stands and the lines ran across the back of the car park as it was. Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Thanks Christina, I've always liked the Fleury Museum and quite admire the architecture; hopefully the redesign will be sympathetic. It was always well laid out inside although the exhibit that always made the biggest impression on me was the the memorial on the wall above the stairs to the inhabitants of the village who died in the war with the year of their death. It really brought home to me the lop sided sacrifice of the French in the first part of the war. I've always found Verdun the most difficult battlefield to visualise as it was when I'm there and the Fleury museum is the main point of orientation when looking from say the top of Douaumont; maybe the redesign will help. Pete. P.S. Did you imagine the post about the new plaques in the ossuary would lead to such an interesting and informative discussion when you started it? I feel quite bad for lowering the tone by mentioning juggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Here's a link to a short news report about the discovery at Fleury. http://pluzz.francetv.fr/videos/jt_1920_lorraine.html Theprogramme is Lorraine 19/20 and you have to click on Relay (at least I did). The report starts 10 mins in. The chap being interviewed said that the body was more or less complete and that his equipment was also found but unfortunately no identity disc. The plan for the Memorial involves an upper floor which will be a sort of glass viewing platform. I think the Memorial website has an architect's representation of what it will be like. Not that it will help much, in my view, as the whole area is in deep forest but it's better than nothing. Pete, if you want to know what the battlefield was like you could always read 'Walking Verdun'. I spend a lot of time in it explaining what you could see from the various places and what the terrain was like. Just a thought ... The Ossuary plaque discussion became very interesting indeed. And No, I didn't suppose it would take off like that. Peter Freundl and family would be amazed. Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Fleury has a special meaning for me, as it was there that my great uncle Capitaine Marcel Verzieux was wounded while in command of Compagnie 2/13 de Génie.and where he won his Croix de Guerre. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 It's an extraordinary place. I hope your great uncle came home safely. Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 He did. He rejoined his unit, changed companies, and retired after the War. He was recalled in 1940, aged 56, but released two weeks later, as medically unfit. He died in 1973. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 I went past the Memorial today. It was the usual hive of activity to be found on all building sites. Two diggers standing and looking cold and not a workman in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Yes thats a French building site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 What a wonderful picture, Michael. He could only be French. Did you know him? Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Christina, I met him as a boy of 10 on a trip to visit the cousins in 1962. He still lived in the family home in Beaunant (now apparently being re-developed). He was the only Frenchman I ever met who wore a beret! He used literary tenses in everyday speech and read English detective stories. He never married, and lived with his sister (who also never married). His nephew Adjt. Antonin Gautier was killed in September 1918 with SPA80. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Pete, if you want to know what the battlefield was like you could always read 'Walking Verdun'. I spend a lot of time in it explaining what you could see from the various places and what the terrain was like. Just a thought ... The Ossuary plaque discussion became very interesting indeed. And No, I didn't suppose it would take off like that. Peter Freundl and family would be amazed. Christina, it's a thought that I have had since the book was published and which I've just converted into action via the forum's link to Abe Books. I hope the families of Peter Freundl and Victor Manassy would be pleased with the overall tone of reconciliation; I found it really uplifting. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
healdav Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Yes thats a French building site.Have you looked at a British motorway lately. They seem to be using them to park indefinitely the entire British stock of building machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 24 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2014 I'm sure they'd be both amazed and moved. I hope you enjoy Walking Verdun. You'll find plenty to think about in the deep ravines. Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 I hope you enjoy Walking Verdun. You'll find plenty to think about in the deep ravines. Christina I'm sure I will; I've never had much luck walking around Verdun. First time I was there I went looking for a sight line from the Morte Homme back to Cote 304 and encountered a 75mm or 77mm shell within a couple of metres of the track. One year a couple of French Airforce officers were killed in the forests a week or so before I visited. I've got lost looking for the Kronprinz tunnel entrance, I climbed the Bellville ridge and encountered a dog the size of a small donkey, I nearly fell in a large hole trying to find the top of Fort Souville, I nearly ended up at the bottom of the Ravine de la Dame near the entrance to the Tranchee du Bayonets and I'm sure I saw a wild boar in the trees down by the Haudraumont quarries. It's probably safer for me to read all about it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Christina, I met him as a boy of 10 on a trip to visit the cousins in 1962. He still lived in the family home in Beaunant (now apparently being re-developed). He was the only Frenchman I ever met who wore a beret! He used literary tenses in everyday speech and read English detective stories. He never married, and lived with his sister (who also never married). His nephew Adjt. Antonin Gautier was killed in September 1918 with SPA80. Michael Michael I also love the photograph of your great uncle; it's so full of character. I often wonder that although they survived and came home they left something of themselves on the hills above the Meuse (or indeed the chalk downs of the Somme or the woods and fields of Ypres). I'm sure that they must have carried those places with them until they passed away. I hope to visit Fleury in the not too distant future (armed with Christina's guide so as to avoid falling down any more ravines) so I will think of him. On my recent visits to Belgium, Artois and Picardy I've tried to see the battlefields through the experiences of particular soldiers who I research. It would be good to know a bit more about your great uncle's service if you have it and wouldn't mind sharing so I can do the same there. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 Michael I also love the photograph of your great uncle; it's so full of character. I often wonder that although they survived and came home they left something of themselves on the hills above the Meuse (or indeed the chalk downs of the Somme or the woods and fields of Ypres). I'm sure that they must have carried those places with them until they passed away. I hope to visit Fleury in the not too distant future (armed with Christina's guide so as to avoid falling down any more ravines) so I will think of him. On my recent visits to Belgium, Artois and Picardy I've tried to see the battlefields through the experiences of particular soldiers who I research. It would be good to know a bit more about your great uncle's service if you have it and wouldn't mind sharing so I can do the same there. Pete. When you are there, please cast a thought/say a prayer for Soldat Jean Marie DANIELO, mort pour la France June 8, 1916 Fleury-devant-Douaumont. No relation, but I have his medals and scroll. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Johnson Posted 24 January , 2014 Share Posted 24 January , 2014 The regimental history account of the 2/13th's time at Verdun. Marcel's citation for the Croiz de Guerre. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Holstein Posted 25 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2014 D'un calme et d'un courage a toute epreuve. That says it all. I don't know how anybody survived Fleury - or plenty of other places for that matter. Thank you, Michael, for posting Marcel's citation and the extract from the regimental history. I'll certainly have a thought for Jean Marie Danielo and his comrades on both sides. Pete - I'm sorry you had such difficulty walking at Verdun. In 20 years I haven't had that much trouble! (Sorry about the lack of accents. I'm on a new laptop and haven't found them yet. If anyone can help, please let me know.) Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 Pete - I'm sorry you had such difficulty walking at Verdun. In 20 years I haven't had that much trouble! As long as you avoid things like this! Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 Pete - I'm sorry you had such difficulty walking at Verdun. In 20 years I haven't had that much trouble! Christina I exaggerate somewhat for comic effect but it's mostly true. Most of the time I have been looking for sight lines around the edges of the trees; it's a most frustrating battlefield from that perspective but one that continues to fascinate me. If I had to choose a most impressive moment on any battlefield I would probably choose standing on the top of the Ouvrage de Thiaumont watching the mother and father of all thunderstorms approach. Anyway nothing can go wrong now as I have a properly researched guidebook by a world expert; I'm still a bit wary of the wild boar however. I actually like wild boar, but mainly in sausage form or roasted in a baguette...... Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 Norman Great photograph; I'm sure I've fallen in that one. Where was it taken? Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 Taken on the Mort Homme Pete and just after some guys started to abseil down the hole. Looking over the edge there seemed to be a tunnel branching off but Christina will know much more about this than I do. I am so glad you did not fall down this one as you would now be a very ex-member of the GWF! Regards Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 25 January , 2014 Share Posted 25 January , 2014 Taken on the Mort Homme Pete and just after some guys started to abseil down the hole. Looking over the edge there seemed to be a tunnel branching off but Christine will know much more about this than I do. I am so glad you did not fall down this one as you would now be a very ex-member of the GWF! Regards Norman Knowing my luck I'd fall in, survive the fall only to find an angry wild boar at the bottom very much not in sausage form. Christina will be able to confirm I'm sure but I think the Mort Homme saw some serious tunneling action in 1916, mainly to get troops to the crest without having to go up the exposed northern slope which was swept by fire directed from Cote 304 initially. Joking aside on the odd occasions I've been in the trees at Verdun I spend most of my time looking where I'm putting my feet; it doesn't do to look for the wood or the trees particularly on the Mort Homme. If memory serves not only was the Mort Homme shelled massively by both sides during the 1916 battle but it was also pounded in the summer of 1917 as part of a set piece operation to retake the hill organised by Petain in the wake of the mutinies. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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