Soldier's Wills New Online service

[andrew pugh]

Good Evening All.

My Great Uncle was killed on the 24/03/18 and is recorded as missing and is commemorated on the ARRAS memorial. Somebody said on this thread that the will was part of the pay book does this mean that someone or organisation has the rest of the pay book.I have researched my Great Uncle for the last 11 years and have come to a point where I think he is buried. As I have mentioned on the forum on previous occasions. His Battalion lost on that day 1 Sgt 1 Cpl and 2 Privates. The Sgt I located in Bancourt Cemetery in a named grave in the row behind there is an unknown Cpl and 2 unknown privates the CWGC gave me a map location where they were found and a list of what was found on the remains when found in Oct 1919 and also stated that they were all found buried together and probably buried by the Germans looking at the list of what was on their remains when found. My Gt Uncle was one of the privates and what was found on the body of the one who I am sure is my relative ties up with a photo we have of him wearing these things 2 wound stripes ect.If When found there was no ID on him so he then became an unknown. But how come you have the will which was part of his pay book and as someone said on this thread that it was only removed from the pay book when the person had been killed.

Regards Andy

[andrew pugh]

If your having trouble getting on the site use the feedback to ask them to manually log you on. also once you have paid for the Will you have to wait 10 days before you can down load it.

Regards Andy

[Terry Carter]

Only had to wait 24 hours before I was able to download.

Interesting though. The soldier who was killed did not write the will. It was a statement from a relative who had heard what the soldier had said. The young lad was on embarkation leave and he said to his mother that if anything should happen to him everything he owns belongs to her. Sadly he was killed three weeks later. The statement was countersigned by the local Vicar.

Terry

[Pat Atkins]

My sister has just downloaded the paybook will of our great-uncle Herbert E.K. Atkins, 2RF, which was made out on leaving for overseas service (Gallipoli) where he was killed on 26 May 1915. The quality was OK, although I agree it wasn't wonderful - fit for service in this instance, though. As I mentioned on another thread, Herbert's rank on the will is given as L/Cpl but he's recorded as a private on his MiC and Helles Memorial so I'm assuming an acting rank. Irritatingly, the page has been accidentally torn out to obscure the identity of his Company, which is a shame as I'd hoped to get this info to help research him further - hey ho.

It was oddly moving to read the handwriting of a relative who is a mystery beyond a few biographical facts - I don't know what he looked like, or how he sounded, or what kind of young man he was at all but I do feel some personal connection through his handwriting. Which is, as it happens, exactly what you might expect of a typical pre-War Tommy who'd had little schooling - slightly laboured and stilted (standard phrasing for the will, of course, which doesn't help) and almost childish.

There was no will available for his brother killed on the same day in France with 23rd Londons - while neither has a known grave, Herbert was buried (I learned through this forum - thanks again, Will I Davies!) while his brother William either wasn't or the grave was lost sometime in the next three years of fighting (at Givenchy). I assume William's paybook was lost with him.

[roughdiamond]

But how come you have the will which was part of his pay book and as someone said on this thread that it was only removed from the pay book when the person had been killed.

Regards Andy

From my post #134 on this thread: -

"Firstly not all Wills were from paybooks which were "Informal Wills", there were other types which are explained here http://www.nas.gov.u...ldiersWills.asp in an explanation from the National Archives of Scotland."

Sam

[LEUZEWOOD]

Somebody said on this thread that the will was part of the pay book does this mean that someone or organisation has the rest of the pay book.

Andy,

I have a contact at the company who digitised the wills and made the same enquiry regarding my ancestor's will. All he seemed to know was that the pay books certainly weren't still together in storage with the wills. Unless anyone knows otherwise, I would suspect that if they were no longer of any relevance, legal or otherwise, that they would have been destroyed?

Just as an aside, as the wills are now the property of HM Courts and Tribunals Service there would seem to be little or no chance of relatives obtaining the originals.

Regards

Tom

[johnboy]

If the wills were removed from the paybook, would the rest of the paybook go to NOK with effects.? Is it likely that the soldier was due some pay, and if so was it paid to NOK?

[CGM]

Pay due to soldiers who died is covered by the Soldiers’ effects records, which are in the care of the National Army Museum.

SEE HERE.

[LEUZEWOOD]

Perhaps someone who has obtained the soldier's effects records from the NAM may be able to comment here?

Beat me to it!

[CGM]

I have obtained Soldiers' effects records so that would be me.

The records include:

Soldier’s Name
Regiment, Rank & Number*
Date & Place of Death
Credits
Charges
Date of Authority
To whom Authorised*
Amount Authorised

If a soldier's records no longer exist and he did not serve abroad before he died, so there is no MIC, these records can be particularly useful.*

[LEUZEWOOD]

I have obtained Soldiers' effects records so that would be me.

The records include:

Soldier’s Name

Regiment, Rank & Number*

Date & Place of Death

Credits

Charges

Date of Authority

To whom Authorised*

Amount Authorised

If a soldier's records no longer exist and he did not serve abroad before he died, so there is no MIC, these records can be particularly useful.*

Thanks CGM,

I have most of that information on my ancestor from other sources with the exception of 'credits, charges' etc. In your view are these records worth obtaining as an historic piece ie are they copies of an original document or just a modern transcript?

Regards

Tom

[CGM]

I have sent for two records and on each occasion I received a summary of the main points as a modern transcript ( a word document ) plus what I am pretty sure are photographs of the original ledger which, as it has something like 19 columns, required several overlapping photographs to cover the whole width of the page. Three for one set of records and four for the other.

There is more information in the ledger than in the transcript.

Speaking personally, I really appreciated seeing the pieces of history which these ledgers obviously are....the red, blue and black ink carefully scribed with dip pens.

CGM

[LEUZEWOOD]

Thanks once again, sounds like it is definitely worth pursuing!

[MaureenE]

My post on page 6 of this thread #136, contains a link to a National Army Museum page which has some images of the Soldiers Effects records

http://www.nam.ac.uk/collection/collection-news/soldiers-effects-records-1901-60

Cheers

Maureen

[andrew pugh]

Good Morning All.

I recently down loaded the Will written by my Great Uncle Henry J Morrell while serving with the Royal Fusiliers. The actual Will which was hand written states that he wished to leave all his possessions to his mother Rose Morrell and signed by him. Am I right in assuming that if the Will that I have just downloaded is written in his own hand writing, and is still in possession of the authorities mean that it was never sent to the family. Another question I would like to ask is when was it a requirement for a soldier to fill out a Will, was it in 1916? Your comments will be very helpful.

Regard Andy.

[roughdiamond]

Good Morning All.

I recently down loaded the Will written by my Great Uncle Henry J Morrell while serving with the Royal Fusiliers. The actual Will which was hand written states that he wished to leave all his possessions to his mother Rose Morrell and signed by him. Am I right in assuming that if the Will that I have just downloaded is written in his own hand writing, It's meant to be, however not all men were literate.

and is still in possession of the authorities mean that it was never sent to the family. Correct

Another question I would like to ask is when was it a requirement for a soldier to fill out a Will, It wasn't a "requirement" at all, it was voluntary

was it in 1916? Wills were included in the Pay Book prior to WW1

[andrew pugh]

Good Morning Again.

Sorry I forgot to thank you all for your previous comments, thank you.

Kind Regards Andy

[Muerrisch]

Good Morning All.

I recently down loaded the Will written by my Great Uncle Henry J Morrell while serving with the Royal Fusiliers. The actual Will which was hand written states that he wished to leave all his possessions to his mother Rose Morrell and signed by him. Am I right in assuming that if the Will that I have just downloaded is written in his own hand writing, and is still in possession of the authorities mean that it was never sent to the family. Another question I would like to ask is when was it a requirement for a soldier to fill out a Will, was it in 1916? Your comments will be very helpful.

Regard Andy.

We don't think it was ever obligatory .......... even in 1914 I think that would have been one intrusion on the soldier too many.

[andrew pugh]

Hi Grumpy.

Cheers for your comment.

Regards Andy

[nhclark]

Three wills of interest to me on the site...but I cannot get at them. I have registered but have never received the e-mail telling me how to activate my account - yes, and I have checked my spam and junk e-mail folders, and the messages held on my server. Zilch.

I used the feedback to point out the problem and was told that my account would be "activated manually", but still cannot sign in - still telling me to follow the instructions in the e-mail sent to me to activate the account. Further feedback has gone unanswered.

Is this par for the course? Very frustrating!

Edit: Can now say (24 hours or so later) that I have managed to enter the "system" and order the three wills.

[Boreenatra]

Just registered and used the system and it seems to be fine

Regards Steve

[Graham Stewart]

An explanation of Soldiers Wills from the A.B.64

[Graham Stewart]

And from the A.F. B.50 - Soldiers Small Book

[Muerrisch]

Thank you Graham, I have a Small Book but not an AB 64.

Extraordinary that either or both could be used, is it not?

[John Orchard]

I am assuming from the wording on the official site that these wills are only those for soldiers that died. Which I find a bit strange. Was there really a set of people geared up for searching these records and having them sent to those soldiers being demobilised, or for being destroyed because they had survived?

I was hoping to find a will for my grandfather because the paybook that I have is a very late issued one, dated October 1918 when he had transferred to the Sherwood Foresters reserve battalions, having previously been with the Training Reserve after being wounded at the battle of Menin Road ridge on Sept 20 1917 serving with B Coy, 10 Bn The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment). This paybook confirms his date of attestation in Sept 1915, by the date given and the inclusion of 3d per day war pay, additional to his standard daily rate. It may be that he wrote a short form will in an earlier paybook, but it is also possible that he completed one of the official will forms and handed it to his CO prior to embarkation to France.

Has anyone any ideas?