Soldier's Wills New Online service

[johnboy]

But they hadn't decided how the copyright would be treated at that point

So anyone can decide copyright? By saying the permission of relatives is needed to republish surely that means that they have accepted that they do not have copyright?

I suppose it is a thin line between public domain and the fact that a charge has been made.

For instance, do the press have to pay for publishing docoments released by the government? eg Secret Files released under 30 yr rule or whatever it is?

[cfraser]

I found one of my 2 great uncles - George Leonard Ingham. Thanks to one of the folks at SWARM who put me on to it. Thanks for the explanation as to why my other one's isn't available (he was MIA/KIA).

I had no trouble paying from Canada by Visa. I did have trouble registering my account. On my first try I got no confirming email. So I tried my work email and got a confirm right away. Very Beta I think.

Re. their get the family's permission to publish....I interpret that as CYA by the bureaucrats. Who is going to sue for damages on breach?

Re. the cost - 6 quid is a no brainer to get what may be the last extant element of my great uncle's service record. I am not sure how I will feel looking at it knowing it was on him when he was mortally wounded though. I am expecting tears from my wife (and maybe me), similar to when I found his last letter home from the Somme a week before he died. But I wouldn't pass this up.

Any thought to starting a string for those who wish to share their wills and who are willing to brave the copyright lawyers?

Cheers

Colin

[jwp2007]

ordered my grt.uncle's will about 10pm Friday and was available to download this morning.

[eairicbloodaxe]

Sorry should have made my comment clearer.

By "hadn't decided" I meant hadn't had the decision from the legal team as to how the copyright laws SHOULD be interpreted; not that they made a choice on how they WOULD interpret it.

Regards

Ian

[Muerrisch]

I have just read the D Tel. of yesterday on the subject of soldiers' Wills.

A load of tosh.

Says that soldiers were made to write Wills because the army was worried that otherwise unpaid Mess bills might remain unpaid! Mess?!!!!

I have had a look for the rules, and they are thin indeed.

No mention Wills in either KR 1914 or the Pay Warrant indices.

Soldiers Small book AF B 50. 1903 edition has a section for a Will, and advice on completion, says when engaged in actual warfare a Will may be made without witnesses, or indeed to declare orally in the presence of witnesses. Soldier must be 21 years unless on service. The Will form included is AF B 243

Mobilisation Regs 1914 section 186 requires a Pay Book AB 64 and ID disc to be issued .......... section 192 the Wills other than those made in AB64 to be forwarded to officer i/c records.

Dr Dunn's TWTIK mentions Pay Books, ID discs and Family Allotments but does not mention Will making.

SO A FEW QUESTIONS PLEASE

DOES ANYONE HAVE A FORM AB 64 SHOWING WILL SECTION?

can someone please post a Will obtained from these new releases to show form number, headings etc?

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A REGULATION WHEREBY MAKING A WILL WAS MANDATORY?

[Kevin Tobin]

OK - found 2 wills I wanted - paid first time - got a message saying they will be available within 10 days....

[geordie809]

OK - found 2 wills I wanted - paid first time - got a message saying they will be available within 10 days....

Ordered mine Friday and it was ready to download late last night........

Unfortunately it was not of of the few that had a letter attached with it, which is a shame as he left everything to his sister and not his wife!!!

Also it was written 2 days before he was killed on the 28 Sept 1918.

[LEUZEWOOD]

I ordered my great grandfather's on Friday and downloaded this morning - sadly mine contained nothing more personal than the basic form.

I have a couple of questions however...

I think it had already been raised here somewhere as to whether the next of kin would have received a copy, and if not why?

Also, presumably as this was taken from the soldier's pay book, what happened to the remainder of the document? I guess it was destroyed once the will was removed?

[roughdiamond]

DOES ANYONE HAVE A FORM AB 64 SHOWING WILL SECTION?

See my post #43 on page 2 of this thread for an image of a completed Will page from an AB64, AB64 isn't a form it's a Book, AB being "Army Book", AB64 being "Army Book 64, Soldiers Service and Pay Book".

Edited to add: this is an example of a formal will form AF B243

Sam

[ss002d6252]

Ordered mine Friday and it was ready to download late last night........

Same here - the (ww2) one for my relative was just a standard template will but the other one (ww1) for a man I've been looking at had several versions of a will enclosed and a cover sheet from the War Office (he died at home) , so plenty of info on him.

Craig

[sassenach]

Does anyone know at exactly what point these wills would have been made? Would it have been as soon as a man joined up, just before he was posted overseas, or some other time?

[roughdiamond]

Does anyone know at exactly what point these wills would have been made? Would it have been as soon as a man joined up, just before he was posted overseas, or some other time?

Just before going overseas normally.

Sam

[seaforths]

I have just revisited the NLS site regarding the wills of Scottish soldiers and there is a good explanation covering 9 different types of will that could be used by the men. I haven't visited the site for the English wills so I don't know if this information is on that site too but it goes some way in explaining why there would be gaps i.e. some wills missing.

It also explains how the will of one relative is missing from NLS but was available on Scotland's People site.

Edit: link to the NLS information page is here:

http://www.nas.gov.uk/guides/soldiersWills.asp

[colin.green14]

Hi All

Finally placed my order 11.00 Friday night, ready this morning. I am well pleased with the information received on my Grandfather, even though it is only the War Office cover sheet and the actual will. With this information I think I have now, collated enough evidence to have CWGC update their database with the his correct Battalion.

If roughdiamond is correct (#112), then having signed his will on 10th March 1916, I assume he would arrive at the Battalion sometime fairly soon after. According to the War Diary, Draft's arrived on 18th, 21st and 24th March, so perhaps he arrived on one of these dates. Any comments on this assumption?

Colin

[ss002d6252]

From what I've read the completion of wills was standard before deploying overseas and the men were actively encouraged to complete one.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

The man I have a query over in a separate thread was deployed to France on 13/14 August 1914 with the Northumberland Fusiliers and he completed his will on 14 August 1914.

Craig

[kevmc]

The man I have a query over in a separate thread was deployed to France on 13/14 August 1914 with the Northumberland Fusiliers and he completed his will on 14 August 1914.

Craig

Craig

I received a copy of my Grandfathers will today. He left for Egypt in 1914 moved on to France in 1917 was killed in France in May 1918. The will was dated 8th Feb 1918.

Kevin

[ss002d6252]

I received a copy of my Grandfathers will today. He left for Egypt in 1914 moved on to France in 1917 was killed in France in May 1918. The will was dated 8th Feb 1918.

I would suspect that he had made a revised will for some reason in Feb 1918 (or he may simply have declined to have made one earlier). If he had made a revised will then the earlier one would presumably be destroyed as no longer relevant.

Craig

[roughdiamond]

Craig

I received a copy of my Grandfathers will today. He left for Egypt in 1914 moved on to France in 1917 was killed in France in May 1918. The will was dated 8th Feb 1918.

Kevin

Kevin

Was it the one from the pay book Kevin? If a mans pay book was replaced for any reason, then a new will form would have to be filled in and dated when it was done, as Craig said above, he may have wanted to change the beneficiary, did he marry or did a parent die? Or he could have lost his previous pay book.

As to when you'd fill in the will form, slightly off topic but I hope relevant, when I was mobilised to Kuwait in 2003, we were encouraged to complete a will form during the mobilisation process, on processing into theatre when we got to Kuwait, we were again questioned if we'd completed a will, the process doesn't seem to have changed much in the intervening years other than the will not being part of a pay book.

Sam

[kevmc]

Kevin

Was it the one from the pay book Kevin? If a mans pay book was replaced for any reason, then a new will form would have to be filled in and dated when it was done, as Craig said above, he may have wanted to change the beneficiary, did he marry or did a parent die? Or he could have lost his previous pay book.

Sam

Hello Sam

The will has page number 13 at the top and is headed WILL.

At the bottom there are lines for signature, Rank and Regiment and Date

I assume it is from a pay book. He was married just before the War and the will is in favour of my grandmother. It seems like a stock form, rather than one individually put together. Perhaps troops going to Egypt/Gallipoli were not guided to write wills in the same way as those going to the Western Front? Certainly he left it late if this was his first Will.

On 8th Feb 1918 211th Brigade was in the Givenchy/La Bassee area which was reasonably quiet so he may have had time to get his affairs in order. I would think their time spent a few months before, in the Passchendaele confrontation gave him cause to think about what may happen.

Kevin

[RaySearching]

Received My great uncle Thomas William Lofthouse's will today

nothing on it I did not know already

could be useful to establish next of kin if all other avenues fail but at £6.00 a throw an expensive way to research

here is the will

regards Ray

[LEUZEWOOD]

Hi All

Finally placed my order 11.00 Friday night, ready this morning. I am well pleased with the information received on my Grandfather, even though it is only the War Office cover sheet and the actual will. With this information I think I have now, collated enough evidence to have CWGC update their database with the his correct Battalion.

If roughdiamond is correct (#112), then having signed his will on 10th March 1916, I assume he would arrive at the Battalion sometime fairly soon after. According to the War Diary, Draft's arrived on 18th, 21st and 24th March, so perhaps he arrived on one of these dates. Any comments on this assumption?

Colin

Colin,

I'm no expert, but if you look at the front of a pay book it doesn't appear to have been mandatory to make a will prior to being posted overseas, it merely says, 'you may make a will if you so desire'. Therefore in some cases not a clear indication of when he was posted? My great grandfather's will was dated May 1916 and yet he had already been in France in March of that year (the only other explanation for this is I suppose, as mentioned elsewhere here, he changed his will, or had a replacement book?)

From experience, the most precise method of finding out when a soldier entered the Theatre of War is from the medal rolls - details of which can be found on the Long Long Trail website.

Please ladies and gents correct me if I'm a little off with my advice?

Regards

Tom

[ss002d6252]

Please ladies and gents correct me if I'm a little off with my advice?

The only extra I can add is that for men who went overseas before the end of 1915 then the date of entry overseas is also shown on the Medal Index Cards (as well as the Rolls).

Craig

[tullybrone]

Hi,

Did the Army change soldiers will making procedure post WW1?

It does seem rather strange for a man to make a will, using the page in the AB64, and then retain the will on his person when deployed on active service.

Perhaps the army learned from the experience of men being killed in action by artillery etc, and leaving no physical trace, and made sure that completed wills were removed from the pay book and stored elsewhere.

I make this comment as I am in possession of the single page will from my fathers AB64 book which he completed in Egypt 12th October 1938 the day before an emergency deployment to Palestine with 3rd CG. They saw action in Jerusalem the following week and from memory at least one man was killed. I remember seeing his AB64 as a child but could not find it after my father died.

When I got his service papers last year his WW2 B103 was endorsed "will returned to man on discharge".

Steve Y

[colin.green14]

Hi Tom on the Somme, ss002d6252 and all

Thanks for the comments with regards to deployment to France for my Grandfather. Neither his medal Index card or medal Roll has a date for entry into the French theatre of War

Regards

Colin