13 Sqn war diaries

[DaveKey]

re posted to new 12 Squadron thread as I misread my notes!!

Now I feel even more stupid as having seen lt JJ Elder's service record he was at 13TS until he graduated on 4-6-18. So I wonder if there is any information on Lt Elder in the records you have?

Cheers

Dave

[nils d]

Dear Pierce 09

Could you tell me please did No 13 fly out to join the BEF in one formation unscathed or was there the usual high numbers of drop outs , crashes and lost sheep?

Regards Nils D

[Guest jmb49]

Hi Rhys

A friend of mine who's Grandfather lived untill the late 1970's crashed whilst serving with 13 SQN RFC as a pilot.

The only details we have is that it was on 6th June 1917 east of Arras he sustained head and arm wounds his name was 2/Liuetenant Leslie Robin Neville.

If you have any other details I would be most gratefull.

Cheers

John

[nieuport11]

He was attacked by 7 enemy aircraft over Fampoux on a photo recce but landed safely on aerodrome 6.6.17

2Lt LR Neville wounded/8228 Cpl L Tucker wounded (Aerial Gunner)

Previously on the 9th April he overturned on the aerodrome while flying BE2e 6262

Lt LR Neville Ok/Lt WEW Cushing Ok

[sandymae]

Have just found this thread, very interesting reading.

Lt William John Wyatt was a pilot with 13 sqdn, he was born in South Molton, Devon in 1897 and died in 1923, having been invalided out of the RFC/RAF

in 1919. The following is an extract from a letter home which was reprinted in the local newspaper in 1917:

“Had a rather trying experience the other day, at 7.45pm on Friday May 25th (1917) to be exact. I got attacked by 7 Huns and the machine riddled, had to land into a shell hole only 1,000 yards behind the front line. Even then the Huns weren’t satisfied, and fired at me again as I was trying to undo my belt and get out of the machine. That wasn’t nearly all - the Boche started to shell the machine heavily and accurately. I sat at the bottom of some steps leading to a fallen in dug-out and was shelled solidly for an hour, one of the rottenest hours of my life; expected every minute to be buried alive, as every shell burst close bits of the roof came down.

His observer was 2nd Lt W W Boyd. Both men served in 13 Squadron Royal Flying Corp and flew BE2e (2 seater reconnaissance aircraft).

Would you please see if there is any information on WJ Wyatt, I would be very grateful to find out a little more about him

With thanks

Sandra

[mickdavis]

Now I feel even more stupid as having seen lt JJ Elder's service record he was at 13TS until he graduated on 4-6-18. So I wonder if there is any information on Lt Elder in the records you have?

Cheers

Dave

My RE8 file has only 3 references to JJ Elder

C2313 1 ASD Reception Park dd ex England 25.4.1918. 13 Sqn dd ex 1 ASD 3.5.1918 (2Lt R.W. Redding), used in unsuccessful test of 20” camera 14.8.1918 (Lt R.E. Britton/Lt J.W.G. Clark) and damaged on 12.25 Contact Patrol, XVII Corps Front, 27.8.1918 (Lt J.J. Elder/Lt M.J. Sheehan both OK – the machine was hit by machine gun fire from the ground but returned to the aerodrome at 15.25). 2 ASD and deleted 27.11.1918 (not worth reconstruction).

F5891 Taken on charge on reconstruction from C2315 25.6.1918. 13 Sqn dd ex 2 ASD 25.6.1918 and LIA on 14.50 Neutralising Fire Patrol 31.8.18 (Lt J.J. Elder IOAS/2Lt M.J. Sheehan OK – the machine was shot down by ground machine gun fire, caught alight and was damaged by fire). For deletion.

F5977 Taken on charge on reconstruction from B6597 12.7.1918. 1 AIS dd ex 1 ASD Reception Park 11.8.1918. 13 Sqn dd ex 1 AIS 13.8.1918 (Lt C.A. Brown/Sgt Sefton) and LIA on 05.15 Artillery Patrol, XVII Corps Front, 16.9.1918 (Lt J.J. Elder/Lt A. Ostler MC both KIA – the machine was shot down by ground fire).

[mickdavis]

Have just found this thread, very interesting reading.

Lt William John Wyatt was a pilot with 13 sqdn, he was born in South Molton, Devon in 1897 and died in 1923, having been invalided out of the RFC/RAF

in 1919. The following is an extract from a letter home which was reprinted in the local newspaper in 1917:

“Had a rather trying experience the other day, at 7.45pm on Friday May 25th (1917) to be exact. I got attacked by 7 Huns and the machine riddled, had to land into a shell hole only 1,000 yards behind the front line. Even then the Huns weren’t satisfied, and fired at me again as I was trying to undo my belt and get out of the machine. That wasn’t nearly all - the Boche started to shell the machine heavily and accurately. I sat at the bottom of some steps leading to a fallen in dug-out and was shelled solidly for an hour, one of the rottenest hours of my life; expected every minute to be buried alive, as every shell burst close bits of the roof came down.

His observer was 2nd Lt W W Boyd. Both men served in 13 Squadron Royal Flying Corp and flew BE2e (2 seater reconnaissance aircraft).

Would you please see if there is any information on WJ Wyatt, I would be very grateful to find out a little more about him

With thanks

Sandra

My BE File has only 2 entries for Wyatt

A1841 At Southport 28.3.1917, allotted to EF France. 1 AD St Omer by 7.4.1917. 13 Sqn Savy/Etrun dd ex 1 AD 12.4.1917 and FTL by 7 EA 25.5.1917 (2Lt WJ Wyatt/2Lt WW Boyd OK – engine E849/WD5000).

A2846 At Bristol 12.2.1917 allotted to EF France. 13 Sqn Etrun crashed and wrecked after intentional stall 8.6.1917 (Lt WJ Wyatt/Lt L Speller). Deleted on 13 Sqn.

[tcrean7828]

Mate,

Do you have any information on Capt. Thomas MacLeod and his gunner H. Pierson flying a B.E.2c from 13 Sqn on 8 Apr 17.

[nieuport11]

Not sure what's in the diaries but I have nothing on the 8th for MacLeod/Pierson.

On the 11th April though Gnr H Pierson was wounded in BE2c 2501 along with pilot ECE Derwin after being attacked by hostile aircraft and landing in the front line trenches during a photo sortie.

In response to an earlier post regarding the embarkation of 13Sq:

12 pilots were scheduled to leave with 13Sq of which 8 arrived safely on the 19th October:

Capt LS Metford

Lt GA Porter

Lt MGF Richardson

Lt AM Morison

Lt HL Cooper

2Lt HMD O'Malley

2Lt ARH Browne

2Lt CEH Medhurst

Of the others, Capt A Shekleton joined the squadron on the 22nd from St Omer in a Bristol Scout.

Lt AH Morton joined on the 22nd from Folkestone

The two missing ones are Capt CH Marks and Lt EW Powell - information may be in the diaries regarding them

A Lt Long delivered an aircraft to the squadron on the 25th, suggesting one aircraft was lost prior to this. He may be a delivery pilot as I have not record of such an officer with 13Sq

[tcrean7828]

Mate,

I believe that Capt. Thomas MacLeod was an acting CO of 13 Sqdn and a pilot at this time and think that he went on a ride on the 8th. What information do you have on gunner H. Pierson? aircraft he was assigned and victories if possible.

tks in advance for anything that you might have

[nieuport11]

The above is the only entry I can find for Pierson other than his medal card WO 372/16/5266 showing him as Private with King Edwards Horse (#1366) and RFC (#65247)

[tcrean7828]

Mate,

you wouldn't happen to have the full names of 2/Lt E R Gunner and Lt C Curtis Wounded in Action in B.E.2d (5848)?

thanks in advance

[nieuport11]

Gunner is listed differently on various documents:

Eric Redgrove (AIR 76)

Eric Ridgrave (WO372)

Eric Redgrave (Gazette)

Presume the last one is the correct version. DOB is 5.1.1894

There is a Cecil Curtis (DOB 18.5.1896) and a Cyril (DOB 21.11.1895). You would need to look at the AIR 76 records to determine which one, as the Gazette simply refers to C Curtis. (AIR 76/119/134 and ../135 respectively, but also a C Curtis in ../133)

[Pierce09]

Sorry i've been away for some time, I'm posted to the other side of the world at the moment. i shall have a read up through the diaries and notes i have and post anything i find over the next week.

Rhys

[Pierce09]

So firstly, MARKLAND...

From the diaries;

23^rd October 1915. One reconnaissance by Lt. Medhurst pilot, with Lt. McAlery (observer) over the area Amiens – Villiers, Bretonneux, Guillaucourt – Rosiers – Puiseux – Nestle – Hane – St. Quentin. 12.58-2,57 p.m. Other flights Photography-unsuccessful owing to bad light, patrol looking for Aviatik, Tests.

Lt. (Tem. Capt.) C.H. Marks with 2/Lt. W.G. Lawrence – missing and killed. Thus the squadron opened its Casualty list. Cas. Book reports:

German wireless reported English Biplane brought down in S. of St. Quentin. Pilot and observer both dead.

Hope this helps a bit.

Next! NILS D....

Details I have are that the sqn was formed in Gosport on 10^th Jan 1915 and moved overseas on 19^th Oct 1915.

If you give me an email address, I will send you the first two pages from the diaries giving details of the sqn’s activities whilst in Gosport and the order of flight over to France.

To CRFC;

Diary entry has as follows;

20^th Artillery patrols. Bomb dropping and shooting up ground targets.

Casualties 2/Lt R.B. Hooper ) Wounded – accident

“ J.P. Coleman) Engine cut out at 200’ Machine stalled and crashed

Sgt. R.C. Taylor ) Missing

2 A/M.W.H.Swift)

With regard to the fate of Sgt Taylor and A/M Swift there is no further information. War Graves have been asked but they have them noted as Missing. They have therefore been shown on the Presumed Dead list.

I can now add this;

Sept combats-

3rd Sept

Sgt.R.C.Taylor with Lt. F.D.Steel as Observer while taking photographs in the vicinity of Remy were attacked by 7 E.A. 6 of which dived from behind.

The Observer opened fire at one of the Scouts which turned completely over and was seen to crash iat about 0.16 Sheet 5lb. i.e. just N of Arras-Cambrai road West of Remy. A second machine was then fired on and sent down in a spin. After the R.E.8 had recrossed the lines the remaining E.A broke off the attack.

Hope that adds to your story.

[Pierce09]

STILLLEARNING, I have this only;

MARCH. The month carried out by the Squadron during the month was similar to that of February.

Combats during March were as follows;

On the 4^th. One indecisive by 2/Lt.Fitzhugh while on artillery patrol.

On the 9^th. By Capt.Brunwin-Hales while on Artillery Observation with 3 scouts Indecisive.

On the 11^th by Lt. Bell – on Atrillery patrol – his own machine much damaged. The 3 E.A which attacked himretired when he crossed the lines.

On the 16^th by 2/Lt.Dunford – Atrillery patrol

Indecisive.

“ “ 17^th by Capt.Brunwin-Hales – indecisive.

“ “ 24^th by Lt.D.M.Bisset with Lt.G.G.Coury V.C attacked an E.A. which in turn attacked another B.E. which went down in flames.

Indecisive.

On the 30^th by Lt.D.R.Delhaye. Indecisive.

“ “ “ by Lt.Bell. Indecisive.

Casualties Casualties during the month were as follows:-

Capt.G.S.Thorne Missing & Dead 18/3

2/Lt.P.E.H.Van Baerle “ “ Prisoner 18/3

Capt.G.O.Brunwin-Hales) Killed in Action 24/3.

Lt.A.R.Leggo )

The last two named were brought down by A.A. with part of the tail blown away.

Hope this adds something to your research

[Pierce09]

Hi Rhys

A friend of mine who's Grandfather lived untill the late 1970's crashed whilst serving with 13 SQN RFC as a pilot.

The only details we have is that it was on 6th June 1917 east of Arras he sustained head and arm wounds his name was 2/Liuetenant Leslie Robin Neville.

If you have any other details I would be most gratefull.

Cheers

John

Only details i've found are a small passage in the diaries as follows:-

6th JUNE

1 Indecisive combat

2/Lt L.R.Neville with Corpl.L.Tucker as observer, while on photography were attacked near Fampoux by 7 E.A: as a result both were wounded.

Lt Neville is mentioned on 6th Apr

On 6th April Lt. L.R. Neville with Lt. W.W. Boyd as observer while on Artillery Observation and after dropping bombs were attacked by 7 E.A. No Decision.

[Pierce09]

Mate,

Do you have any information on Capt. Thomas MacLeod and his gunner H. Pierson flying a B.E.2c from 13 Sqn on 8 Apr 17.

Only info i have on that date for them is in the combats section for April as follows;

6th April 2/Lt.E.C.E Derwin with A/M Pierson while on photography fired a double drum at 2 E.A. which attacked them near Roclincourt. the E.A. retired to their own lines.

8th April Capt. T.Macleod with Gunner Pierson while on Artillery Observation engaged 1 and 5 E.A respectively in the Arras Sector. Indecisive.

Pierson's rank is down as 2nd Airman in the diaries.

In the casualties sections for April, the following appears;

11th April 2/Lt E.C.E.Derwin ) Shot down by H.A

2 A/M H.Pierson ) Both wounded

" " 2/Lt.E.R.Gunner ) Wounded in action

Lt.C.Curtis )

I'll keep searching through and looking for any further information

[Pierce09]

Hi,

When I saw this forum I had to sign in, with the hope, you are perhaps able to help me.

I'm doing a research for a friend, his uncle was Arthur (Hood) Wardlaw 402599, he was a second lieutenant at 13 squadron RFC of WW1.

I already found his medal card at the public record office at Kew, where his function is decribed as Air Mechanic 1st class.

We know also that he was stationed with 13 Squadron in 1917 at a place called Etrum, N-W of Arras.

He was shot down in a R.E.8 and killed together with his pilot Sargent Stanley on the 30th September 1917 at a place called Tilloy.

We also found the Germans name who claimed the shot down, his name was Ltn. Ernst Hamsher of Jasta 37.

Strange enough it was ten times easyer to find photos and records of the German than of my friends uncle.

I also found out that this German claimed two R.E.8 that day 30/09/1917.

What we still want to find out, and see is next:

-Any records of his los?

-information on the pilot that was with him?

-is there a flight record of 13 squadron available of that particular day he was shot down?

-And if possible we also want to find out the serial number of his aircraft?

-Any photos on the persons in question, or the aircarft as far if something is availeble?

Of course any other availeble information, would also be more than welcome.

Cheers,

Danny

All i have for this date are as follows;

30th Artillery Patrols, photgraphy and Observations.

Sgt.A. Stanley and 1 A/M A.Wardlaw missing

Re Sgt. Stanley and A/M.Wardlaw

Efforts have been made to try and establish the ultimate fate of these two casualties. Available records however are silent as to this - War Graves have been asked and they replied "Their records show them as missing, no graves registered"

They have been therefore entered in the Presumed Dead Column.

on the 20th July, this was entered into the diaries:

20th Artillery Patrols, Observations, photgraphy while taking photographs near Plovain. Sergt. A. Stanley with 2 A/M.Wardlaw were attacked by 5 E.A; as the leader of the German formation dived past:- 2 A/M Wardlaw succeeded in hitting the enemy machine which was seen to fall completely out of control.

this is all i have. hope this helps!

I'll add more over the coming days to this and answer some more of the enquiries I've received.

Thanks for your patience!

[Pierce09]

Anyone need anything else looking up?

Anyone found some use in the extracts i've found?

[Guest AKeech13]

Hi Rhys,

I'm particularly interested in Lt William John Wyatt of 13 Sqd as part of a school project to commemorate war dead. He was injured in a crash on 8th June 1917, along with his observer Lt L Speller. I've seen an extract from a report from somebody else, some time ago, referring to the aircraft being wrecked after an intentional stall. I wondered if the war diary throws any further light on the incident or Wyatt himself.

Cheers

Andy

[Pierce09]

I'll have a look tomorrow and let you know what i find.

[Pierce09]

All I have on the incident is the following extract;

8th Contact and Artillery patrols, Observation and Photography.

2/Lt.W.J.Wyatt with 2/Lt.L.Speller both injured in a crash, consequent

on the pilot intentionally stalling his machine.

There is mention of a report by Lt.Boyd on his observation flight with Lt.Wyatt on 25/5/17. This may be reference to 3 indecisive combats on that day but I have no report in the records.

Sorry I can't be more help

[nieuport11]

There are 4 casualty reports for WJ Wyatt, the first two with 11Sq in 1916 and so this may be a different man

The 8.6.17 report gives full details of the crash (although his casualty card is dated 7.6.17)

I can send all the reports if you send me a private message with email address - there is a TNA reproduction fee for copying them here!

[nils d]

Nieu 11

Thanks for post No 59