pierssc Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Another couple of pictures on which I would be grateful for some help with identification. Again, I'm afraid the quality isn't great - but the originals are only 1.5 x 2.5 inches and a bit faded so they're really not bad considering! This merry band are wearing the kilt, apart from the officer (seated centre) and the sergeant (leaning on stick). The sergeant features in a separate photograph and we get a better look at his badge - which looks like it could possibly be a St Andrew's Cross surmounted by a crown. It seems wider at the base, which suggests that whatever it is is stitting on a scroll. He has a nice belt buckle too - but unfortunately I can't get it to reveal any detail. Again, I have had a trawl around trying to find a suitable candidate and can't find any obvious contenders. Any suggestions? Cheers Piers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Canadian ? Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 The cap badge has the look of St. Andrew carrying the Cross or a Cross surmounted by a Crown. I am miffed by the vertical asymmetry, slimmer on top and wider at bottom. Could not discover a reasonable match among Canadian, Australian, South African, or New Zealand Scottish badges??? Can you get a clearer image of just the sergeant's shoulder title from either of the photographs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Some of these boys are very young and, given the mix, any possibility of a Scottish OTC / OCB. Must admit looks like St Andrew, not sure I see the crown though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Is the braiding on the cuffs of the individual Sjt. of any significance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Some of these boys are very young and, given the mix, any possibility of a Scottish OTC / OCB. Must admit looks like St Andrew, not sure I see the crown though. Good catch, Suddery, in noticing the youngsters. I am inclined to think this is the Edinburgh University OTC. The badge below seems to match the image in the OP. The shoulder title in the second photo is definitely multiple stacked lines that also appears to fit. pierssc: A better view of the shoulder title in your second photo would help confirm. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Good catch, Suddery, in noticing the youngsters. I am inclined to think this is the Edinburgh University OTC. The badge below seems to match the image in the OP. The shoulder title in the second photo is definitely multiple stacked lines that also appears to fit. pierssc: A better view of the shoulder title in your second photo would help confirm. Mike And thanks for the long stop - seems to be the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Good Call!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 30 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Gordon92 & suddery, I think between you you've got it! Here's the enlargement of the arm and shoulder, and cap badge. Given that one can't really see any detail, the shape of both seem to tie in well with Gordon92's images. It would also fit together quite well with other evidence. I thought I recognised my great aunt's fiance among the private soldiers, but the badge didn't look right for the Royal Scots, in which he was a private in 1915, or for the Gordons, in which he was an officer, Given the Edinburgh connection, and his birth in late 1892 (ie 22 around October 1914) , it is quite possible that he went to Edinburgh University and that it is indeed their OTC - maybe actually pre-war. The collection of dated/datable photos starts about 1911, picks up by 1913, and is busiest around 1916-17. One other possibility, is that if one of the soldiers is who I think it is, that this might possibly have something to do with George Watson's College. It would seem that they had their own OTC - see http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=107626 - does anyone know what their badges looked like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 I can't scan them, but the George Watson's badges illustrated in Reg Cox's book are of a Royal Scots-shaped badge, or a circlet with a small thistle wreath; neither look like the photo. Incidentally, is it my eyesight or does the Sergeant have a wound stripe on his cuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 I have both the rolls of honour for Edinburgh University and George Watson's College. Did the officer survive the war? If he was killed and you have a name? it may be possible to identify him from your photo. Without a name and if he survived then it is an impossible task--because the Rolls only have photos of the majority of those who died during the war, and none for those who survived. If you can post any clues then we may? be able to solve your mystery. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Is this the one Steven? George Watson College I wonder if David C Grieve is in the photo? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Incidentally, is it my eyesight or does the Sergeant have a wound stripe on his cuff? I had noticed this too, but the only possible way, that I can see, that this could have happened, is that he had served in the ranks, had been wounded, and then returned to the OTC as an instructor prior to being commissioned and then returned to the front!!!?? Does that make sense? Wayyy too many commas I suspect--I hope I'm not catching that dreaded Dy*** disease!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 "One other possibility, is that if one of the soldiers is who I think it is, that this might possibly have something to do with George Watson's College. It would seem that they had their own OTC - see http://1914-1918.inv...howtopic=107626 - does anyone know what their badges looked like?" George Watson College OTC badge is shown below....not a match for the original photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 I had noticed this too, but the only possible way, that I can see, that this could have happened, is that he had served in the ranks, had been wounded, and then returned to the OTC as an instructor prior to being commissioned and then returned to the front!!!?? Does that make sense? Surely it's way to high to be a wound stripe ; far closer to elbow than cuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 George Watson College OTC badge is shown below....not a match for the original photo. Comfortable you're right Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 I can't scan them, but the George Watson's badges illustrated in Reg Cox's book are of a Royal Scots-shaped badge, or a circlet with a small thistle wreath; neither look like the photo. Incidentally, is it my eyesight or does the Sergeant have a wound stripe on his cuff? In browsing the Reg Cox book, I now notice that the St. Andrew's University OTC has a badge (#1835) almost identical in shape to the Edinburgh University OTC. However, St. Andrew's does not seem to match the OP's other information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Surely it's way to high to be a wound stripe ; far closer to elbow than cuff. I would tend to agree, but then he does have another badge, 'crossed cutlasses'?? below and I can't think what else it could be--any ideas? Edit: I see now that the 'crossed cutlasses' are infact braid matching the other cuff--Duh!! So I still think this could be a wound stripe-- because it had to be higher up due to the braiding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 30 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Yes, I've been Googling like crazy, and I can only find a Royal Scots type badge for the GW OTC. Edinburgh University it is! Thank you all for your suggestions and help. Old Owl, your post came in after I started this reply.... yes, the officer did survive the war, and married my great aunt - I think he died before I was born. There is also a publication (which I have seen once or twice in secondhand bookshops over the years, and not bought) called something like "The Watsonian War record" which lists brief details of those Watsonians who survived the war. I did look him up but didn't make a note of the details. If anyone has a copy I would be extremely grateful to be reminded of what the entry for Samuel Percy Gillespie said. I think they did the same thing for the second war. If my ID is correct, SPG is the one standing almost centre view just behind the officer, with a chap leaning against him on the left hand side (as we look) and another chap with his arm round both of them. They all appear to be sitting on some sort of cairn (there's a separate picture of the officer, rather more formally dressed, standing by the same cairn, and though you can't see it 'cos I cropped it, the sergeant is too). The sergeant and the wound stripe..... well the sergeant ISN'T the person who I know became an officer, and I don't think I've been able to recognise him in any other pictures yet. The "stripe" if stripe it is, does seem to run into the frogging (if that's the right word) on his cuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 30 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2012 It does look like crossed cutlesses.... but I think it's cuff decoration, and it's on both arms. Here's a different crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 There is no way (sorry to sound like the more petulant of my daughters) that that is a wound stripe; quite simply wrong place. For my wee pence his right arm is a crease, his left arm crossed cutlass. I've trawled through as many photos as I feel serve to make a point and I can find none where a wound stripe is above any insignia. For my money this too is a crease - cue Frogsmile to blow me out of the water ! Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 There is no way (sorry to sound like the more petulant of my daughters) that that is a wound stripe; quite simply wrong place. For my wee pence his right arm is a crease, his left arm crossed cutlass. I've trawled through as many photos as I feel serve to make a point and I can find none where a wound stripe is above any insignia. For my money this too is a crease - cue Frogsmile to blow me out of the water ! Suddery You could well be right and I am not going to disagree if you feel this is the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierssc Posted 30 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2012 With some trepidation, as I don't know anything about wound stripes and where they should be worn, and I don't want to fall out with anyone as I'm the least well-informed one here, if he has braid on his cuffs ending in three loops (and I'm sure that's what it is, you can see it on the group photo too) he presumably could either place the stripe above or below the braid, but he wouldn't put the stripe over it, so it would be in the "wrong" place whatever he did. I think one might just be able to see a bit of the "stripe" on his sleeve - partly masked by someone's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 Hi Piers, From George Watson's 'Watsonian War Record' Gillespie, Samuel Percy. Liverpool, 1892. a brother of the above; 1905-10; banking(Royal Bank of Scot.)1911-14. Honkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation 1914; 9th R.S., Pte 1914; Gordon Highrs. 2/Lt 1915, Lt 1917, Capt 1918; Belgium, France and Germany 1915-19, 2nd Ypres, Somme, Passchendaele, Final Advance and March into Germany; twice wounded; M.C. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 30 July , 2012 Share Posted 30 July , 2012 There'll be no falling out here. You've posted some intriguing photos and this is all in the spirit of debate to find a truth. There will be a convention as to where wound stripes were worn but I too am always learning and a wiser man than I will no doubt post a definitive answer. Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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