H.Douglas Posted 14 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2012 the uniform ..well just excellent,thanks. not in black and white ! I have obtained the two types of badges...very good photos. and a definate affirmative to the photos re barracks..amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper LG Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Photo of 11th (Prince Albert`s Own) Hussars and !0th (Prince of Wales`s Own Royal) Hussars Those with White Cartouche Belts with Flash Cords are Household Cavalry (1st, 2nd Life Guards or RHG). Centre seated figure with Aiguilettes 2nd Class Staff is an NCO (SQMC, CoH, Farrier CoH, Corporal, Band Corporal) and is from 1st or 2nd LG as the Aiguillettes are suspended from the collar (RHG from top tunic button) If you can make out the collars more clearly; 1LG squared, 2LG slightly rounded. Insufficient detail to go any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Most interested in this thread as Ernest served with my Grandfather Sergeant Edward Levingston. They actually may have known each other reasonably well as my grandfather was the Colonel's batman and would therefore have kept a weather eye on the other officer's batmen - there was a well developed network whereby bad behaviour by young officers might have been reported back to the Colonel circuitously via this network and the adjutant. The name of Lt Bolitho that you mention rang a bell and of course he was a casualty in May 1915 when the regiment was in the trenches near Ypres. Do you think you could post a scan of the photo you have of him? His name is on the Menin Gate. It would seem very likely that Ernest was his batman at some stage. As discussed before on the Forum, the book "Hussar of the Line" is a brilliantly detailed description of life at Hounslow with the 19th Hussars just before the Great War and ends with the regiment leaving for war in August 1914. Ernest would have been proudly in these ranks with my Grandad Ted as they rode off into history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 As discussed before on the Forum, the book "Hussar of the Line" is a brilliantly detailed description of life at Hounslow with the 19th Hussars just before the Great War and ends with the regiment leaving for war in August 1914. Rub it in, why don't you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 15 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Most interested in this thread as Ernest served with my Grandfather Sergeant Edward Levingston. They actually may have known each other reasonably well as my grandfather was the Colonel's batman and would therefore have kept a weather eye on the other officer's batmen - there was a well developed network whereby bad behaviour by young officers might have been reported back to the Colonel circuitously via this network and the adjutant. The name of Lt Bolitho that you mention rang a bell and of course he was a casualty in May 1915 when the regiment was in the trenches near Ypres. Do you think you could post a scan of the photo you have of him? His name is on the Menin Gate. It would seem very likely that Ernest was his batman at some stage. As discussed before on the Forum, the book "Hussar of the Line" is a brilliantly detailed description of life at Hounslow with the 19th Hussars just before the Great War and ends with the regiment leaving for war in August 1914. Ernest would have been proudly in these ranks with my Grandad Ted as they rode off into history. ...I am so glad I joined this forum..I have gained more knowledge in one day than I could ever I could have imagined.do you have any photos? I am currently digesting info and re grouping as I have so many more questions buzzing around in my head.I want to try and stay methodical in my research. I too wondered about Lt Bolitho.(to be continued) I do have some scanned documents that one of my aunties sent to me ..I'm going to post one them for your interest..names/signatures on documents are sometimes hard to decipher and they can offer possible leads too.Do you know where I could get a copy of 'Hussar of the line'as that sounds like a good read ! Another thing..A polo stick that belonged to grandad. Its a bamboo,numbered 48,Salter & sons,Alderhot.Did the Hussars play polo as a matter of course? or was this something out of the ordinary for a Private to own?..see what I mean about so many questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 15 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Those with White Cartouche Belts with Flash Cords are Household Cavalry (1st, 2nd Life Guards or RHG). Centre seated figure with Aiguilettes 2nd Class Staff is an NCO (SQMC, CoH, Farrier CoH, Corporal, Band Corporal) and is from 1st or 2nd LG as the Aiguillettes are suspended from the collar (RHG from top tunic button) If you can make out the collars more clearly; 1LG squared, 2LG slightly rounded. Insufficient detail to go any further. Many thanks for that info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 ...I am so glad I joined this forum..I have gained more knowledge in one day than I could ever I could have imagined.do you have any photos? I am currently digesting info and re grouping as I have so many more questions buzzing around in my head.I want to try and stay methodical in my research. I too wondered about Lt Bolitho. (to be continued) I do have some scanned documents that one of my aunties sent to me ..I'm going to post one them for your interest..names/signatures on documents are sometimes hard to decipher as they could offer possible leads too.Do you know where I could get a copy of 'Hussar of the line'as that sounds like a good read ! Another thing..I have a polo stick that belonged to grandad. Its a bamboo,numbered 48,Salter & sons,Alderhot.Did the Hussars play polo as a matter of course? or was this something out of the ordinary for a Private to own?..see what I mean about so many questions !! The presence of NCOs and soldiers with good conduct badges fits in with what I believe to be the scenario of the photograph. On balance of probability I feel it is likely to be a class photograph at the Cavalry School Netheravon. The school was for advanced students, who had served at least a few years with their regiments, and specialized in courses on such subjects as Scouting, Tactics and advanced riding skills. It was also to the Netheravon school that all regimental Riding Masters were sent to qualify formally for their highly important role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 ...I am so glad I joined this forum..I have gained more knowledge in one day than I could ever I could have imagined.do you have any photos? I am currently digesting info and re grouping as I have so many more questions buzzing around in my head.I want to try and stay methodical in my research. I too wondered about Lt Bolitho..(to be continued) I do have some scanned documents that one of my aunties sent to me ..I'm going to post one them for your interest..names/signatures on documents are sometimes hard to decipher as they could offer possible leads too.Do you know where I could get a copy of 'Hussar of the line'as that sounds like a good read ! Another thing..I have a polo stick that belonged to grandad. Its a bamboo,numbered 48,Salter & sons,Alderhot.Did the Hussars play polo as a matter of course? or was this something out of the ordinary for a Private to own?..see what I mean about so many questions !! The Third Class Certificate of Education was necessary for promotion to the rank of Corporal (2nd Class for promotion to Sergeant and 1st Class for promotion to Sergeant Major (later Warrant Officer Class 2)). A good place to try for the book is Abe.Com and there are other sellers who specialize in out of print or obscure books on military history. It would be worth googling "Specialist Military Booksellers". Both Polo and Pig sticking were considered excellent forms of sport and of equestrian training, in that they required skillful use of eye and hand coordination, whilst simultaneously controlling a horse at the canter and gallop. The School at Netheravon established one of the earliest polo Trophys for an annual competition on 'the Gallops' above the camp that later became the two airfields at Upavon and, the plateau above Netheravon (between the parishes of Haxton and Figheldean). As part of the practice necessary for this annual competition the Cavalry Brigade based at nearby Tidworth built their own Polo Ground by importing turf and laying it laboriously by hand on the chalk plain just on the periphery of the Garrison area. Both the Netheravon Trophy and the Polo Ground still exist, although the trophy is now competed for elsewhere as part of the annual Polo Season. There was considerable competition between the regiments to demonstrate prowess in both polo and pigsticking. Indeed, there were annual skill at arms meetings/concentrations where these and other equestrian skills were fiercely contested (see enclosed photo of a Hussar with Lance (courtesy of Victorian Wars Forum), although it is not definite that it is being carried for the purposes of pig sticking, given that he also has a carbine in its bucket). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 You might also try and track down "British Hussar Regiments 1805-1914" by A H Bowling (published in 1972 and now out of print). It has a many black and white line illustrations and coloured illustrations comparing the various hussar uniforms. Lots of black and white photos too, taking us right up to the eve of WWI. It will cost about £10 - see link. MG http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=bowling&bt.x=31&bt.y=16&sts=t&tn=british+hussar+regiments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Those with White Cartouche Belts with Flash Cords are Household Cavalry (1st, 2nd Life Guards or RHG). Centre seated figure with Aiguilettes 2nd Class Staff is an NCO (SQMC, CoH, Farrier CoH, Corporal, Band Corporal) and is from 1st or 2nd LG as the Aiguillettes are suspended from the collar (RHG from top tunic button) If you can make out the collars more clearly; 1LG squared, 2LG slightly rounded. Insufficient detail to go any further. I think the collar is squared (1st LG) and I strongly believe he is the class instructor given his rank and central position, a traditional positioning that has carried on to this day. It has given me goose bumps as I was at Netheravon as an instructor 70 years later and my classroom was in one of the old stable huts (suitably converted). I know the surrounding area well and the backdrop looks to me like the area immediately behind the indoor riding school. We had our class photographs taken in exactly the same way, albeit not in full dress of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Rub it in, why don't you Sorry Steve, I had forgotten "the one that got away". There will be another one along soon though! (Just had a look on "Bookfinder" and there are a few copies available for around £15 to £20 - well worth that sort of expenditure IMHO.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 March , 2012 Share Posted 16 March , 2012 Out of interest, the 10th Royal Hussars introduced the game of polo to the UK in the latter 19th Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 16 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2012 Most interested in this thread as Ernest served with my Grandfather Sergeant Edward Levingston. They actually may have known each other reasonably well as my grandfather was the Colonel's batman and would therefore have kept a weather eye on the other officer's batmen - there was a well developed network whereby bad behaviour by young officers might have been reported back to the Colonel circuitously via this network and the adjutant. The name of Lt Bolitho that you mention rang a bell and of course he was a casualty in May 1915 when the regiment was in the trenches near Ypres. Do you think you could post a scan of the photo you have of him? His name is on the Menin Gate. It would seem very likely that Ernest was his batman at some stage. As discussed before on the Forum, the book "Hussar of the Line" is a brilliantly detailed description of life at Hounslow with the 19th Hussars just before the Great War and ends with the regiment leaving for war in August 1914. Ernest would have been proudly in these ranks with my Grandad Ted as they rode off into history. The best I can do for now.. Lieut.William Torquill MacLeod Bolitho.Crossed to France with B squadron 19th Hussars,August 23rd 1914. Killed in action near Chateau Hooge,24th May,1915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 16 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2012 Lieut.William Torquill MacLeod Bolitho.Crossed to France with B squadron 19th Hussars,August 23rd 1914. Killed in action near Chateau Hooge,24th May,1915 photo copy of the photograph that my grandad had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 16 March , 2012 Share Posted 16 March , 2012 This 19th Hussars chap, Major Charles Russell McClure, died on 21st October 1914 after being wounded under heavy, close fire at Le Bizet, he was 39. Mentioned in Dispatches for his own gallantry on the field, two of his comrades, Sergeant Brunton and Private Jerome, were each awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal for their part in attempting to rescue him. The regiment's white busby bag (shared with the 13th Hussars, but without their matching collar) shows up quite well here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 17 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2012 Excellent photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 March , 2012 Share Posted 17 March , 2012 Frogsmile's account may need a little modification, I think. Although Brunton's memory may have been defective, I suppose. According to Brunton, the Le Bizet fight happened on 16.10.14 and Lt Murray was killed. Brunton got his body under cover. "For this I was later mentioned in despatches and received D.C.M " (Brunton Diary 16.10.14). Diary entry 21.10.14 - "Attacking village of Le Ghier today. ... Major McClure killed by sniper. Could not get his body away as enemy fire too hot". I suspect that Brunton may have got a MM for his efforts later in the war. Major McClure's body was eventually recovered as he now lies in Strand Military Cemetery along with other 1914/1915 casualties. Lt Murray is also buried in Pont-de-Nieppe Cemetery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 March , 2012 Share Posted 17 March , 2012 Frogsmile's account may need a little modification, I think. Although Brunton's memory may have been defective, I suppose. According to Brunton, the Le Bizet fight happened on 16.10.14 and Lt Murray was killed. Brunton got his body under cover. "For this I was later mentioned in despatches and received D.C.M " (Brunton Diary 16.10.14). Diary entry 21.10.14 - "Attacking village of Le Ghier today. ... Major McClure killed by sniper. Could not get his body away as enemy fire too hot". I suspect that Brunton may have got a MM for his efforts later in the war. Major McClure's body was eventually recovered as he now lies in Strand Military Cemetery along with other 1914/1915 casualties. Lt Murray is also buried in Pont-de-Nieppe Cemetery. Thank you for that clarification Ian. The account I posted came from McClure's Alma Mater and I imagine it is quite common for half truths to be accidentally recorded in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 March , 2012 Share Posted 17 March , 2012 Thank you for that clarification Ian. The account I posted came from McClure's Alma Mater and I imagine it is quite common for half truths to be accidentally recorded in that way. No problem. Given that these events were only a few days apart, its not surprising that there was a bit of confusion - and I would imagine that efforts were made to recover all the dead and wounded be they officers or men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 17 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2012 This is the photo copy of Ted (grandad)..taken in a studio.I notice the headwear is now a cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 March , 2012 Share Posted 17 March , 2012 No wonder the girls loved a donkey-walloper! Very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 17 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2012 sorry another photocopy!..I have no idea who these two guys are(possible relation/s to my grandmother the name P.Brady is apparently on the original photograph) but thought the uniform would be of interest.Note the elephant badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 March , 2012 Share Posted 17 March , 2012 This is the photo copy of Ted (grandad)..taken in a studio.I notice the headwear is now a cap. The cap was introduced in 1906 and was red with a black leather peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 March , 2012 Share Posted 17 March , 2012 sorry another photocopy!..I have no idea who these two guys are(possible relation/s to my grandmother the name P.Brady is apparently on the original photograph) but thought the uniform would be of interest.Note the old style elephant badge. The Regiment wore the first pattern of Elephant badge from 1898 to 1902 and then the double scrolled version until 1909. The helmets of the two soldiers are the Foreign Service Pattern from between 1878 and 1908. The 19th Hussars were in India from 1891 until 1899, first at Bangalore, until 1896 and then Secunderabad until departing for the 2nd Boer War in 1899. The photo dates from the period at Secunderabad. "Nasirabad" Garrison housed a Brigade of 4 infantry battalions plus supporting Arms. The name is based on a famous English officer (Sir David Ochterlony), who was honoured with the name "NASIR-UD-DAULA" (the Defender of the State), by Mughal Badshah Shah Alam II. The city was known for its Army population. Also, it is the second station in Rajputana, after Beawer, where missionary work started in 1860's during the epidemic of Plague. Nasirabad is known as a chhavani in Ajmer. The (now) city still has a significance for the modern Indian Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Douglas Posted 19 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 19 March , 2012 The photo dates from the period at Secunderabad. "Nasirabad" Garrison housed a Brigade of 4 infantry battalions plus supporting Arms. Hopefully at some stage I'll be able to I.D the two of them.It helps to be able to date a photo though, plus the interesting extra info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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