WWI Greek bayonets

[Steve1871]

I do not understand you Julian?

the 3  "t" back bayonet's you say are basically Y 1903/30 or Greek M30 Mauser, but in your post, you say Greece being neutral at first, "The original Steyr made M74 Gras bayonet's dried up, and the Y1903/14 started to be used"

Mine is one of the original Steyr made 74 Gras for the Greeks.

I got it for my Y1903

[Steve1871]

I believe the Originad Steyr made M74 Gras went to this original rifle

image.jpg

[Steve1871]

[zuluwar2006]

On 1877 Greek army headquarter ordered 55.000 bayonets gras 1874, which delivered on 1877, by Steyer manufacturer. That is why on the spine of the blade they write "Waffenfabrik Steyer", in German language (in France is "Usine de Steyer" which is the same in French - the French did not want to mention in German language something on the bayonets they used as French army, for reasons from Franco Prussian war of 1871). 

On 22.3.1886 Steyer delivered to the Greek army the last 1000 rifles with bayonets. 

So your bayonet Steve is an original unaltered gras bayonet, made by Waffenfabrik Steyer for the gras rifle and came from the last delivery. 

The letters are from the control ("kontroll" in German) stamping of the bayonet. 

Regards

D. 

[zuluwar2006]

Here is a convertion of a gras Greek bayonet, for mannlicher schoenauer Greek rifle. 

Take attention on the spine of the blade with the original inscriptions on it. 

It is shorter than original bayonet, as this is 40 cms and a new crossguard and handle have been placed, similar as the bayonet Mannlicher Schoenauer M 1914.

[Steve1871]

So I have an Exelent original bayonet ONLY for the Crappy old Gras Rifle, will not fit any of my Greek Rifles.... Guess I just wasted my money. This bayonet is useless for me now. Will never find a Greek used/ marked Gras Rifle

[trajan]

12 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

I do not understand you Julian?

the 3  "t" back bayonet's you say are basically Y 1903/30 or Greek M30 Mauser, but in your post, you say Greece being neutral at first, "The original Steyr made M74 Gras bayonet's dried up, and the Y1903/14 started to be used"

Mine is one of the original Steyr made 74 Gras for the Greeks.

I got it for my Y1903

 

Sorry if I confused you Steve. As I understand it (from memory!) -

 

1) Greece commissioned the Y 1878 Gras-type rifle and bayonets from Waffenfabrik, Steyr, who were already making some Gras bayonets for France.

2) Greece commissioned the Y 1903 Mannlicher with its OEWG-marked purpose made knife bayonet (of which I have several!)

3) Greece commissioned the Y 1914 Mannlicher, an upgrade of the Y 1903, BUT the T-backed bayonets for these were commissioned from Simpson of Suhl. Then came August 1914 and Greece chose neutrality, and so all the Simson made bayonets (said to be 8,000) went to Bavaria and after conversion with a new handle, etc., to fit the Gew.98, became what was officially known as the "Griechisches Messer" - the Greek knife.

4) At some unknown date, but I assume before 1918, many of the Greek Y 1878 Gras bayonets were converted to fit the Y 1903 and 1914 rifles by having the muzzle-ring heightened, and almost certainly before 1918 Greece received obsolete Gras bayonets from France that were also converted to fit the Y 1903 and Y 1914 rifles.

5) Greece lost large numbers of rifles and bayonets, etc., in the Turkish War of Independence, and in 1928 or so, Greece commissioned Gnutti Brescia to make T-Back bayonets on the T 1914 model (I think Mannlicher rifles also?). 

 

Alles klar, nicht wahr?

 

Julian

[zuluwar2006]

Dear friends, 

Here is my latest addition on Greek bayonets. 

An excellent example from an original M 1895 bayonet, captured by Bulgarian army (numbers on the crossguard). 

The G on the blade and the Saint George hallmark are clearly visible on this bayonet. 

Regards

D. 

[zuluwar2006]

Some better photos from the same bayonet. 

Regards

D. 

[zuluwar2006]

My new addition on Greek bayonets. 

This was found in Bulgaria. 

A captured Greek bayonet during 2nd Balkan War (1913 - 1914).

Regards

D. 

[zuluwar2006]

My new addition on Greek bayonets. 

Short model bayonet for Manlicher 1903.

Overall condition fair with a lot of rust. Needs cleaning. 

The Saint George stamp is rusted but you can easily identify it. 

The G marking on the blade is clear. 

Unit marking on the crossguard is 4626 I

Regards

D. 

[AndyBsk]

Star marked bayonets are mostly Breda production or weaponry that delivered for Breda rifles bayonets.

In post 55 excellent bayonet of 1874 converted to M03/14 condition with  ersatz scabbard declared in other forums as a greek conversion for captured turkish M03 bayonets that was reworked to a greek rifles,when i remember correctly. b.r.Andy

[zuluwar2006]

Andy hello

Is incorrect what they said. 

In post 55, this is an original gras bayonet converted for the manlicher rifle. 

I am reposting photos from Greek rework of captured Turkish M 1903 bayonet. 

Regards

D. 

[AndyBsk]

Thanks for adding it here, anyway is possible that the ersatz metallic scabbards were made for various type of long blade bayonets, as exist mouthpieces for typical T shaped blade, so i assume the lenght was shortened to a standart M03/14 lenght.

[zuluwar2006]

4 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

Thanks for adding it here, anyway is possible that the ersatz metallic scabbards were made for various type of long blade bayonets, as exist mouthpieces for typical T shaped blade, so i assume the lenght was shortened to a standart M03/14 lenght.

Andy you are absolutely correct. 

Regards

D. 

[zuluwar2006]

A new Greek Y 1903/14/30 bayonet for my collection. 

Saint George stamp is clearly visible. 

No maker mark visible. 

Unit marking on the crossguard. 

From the order placed by Greek governement on 1927, to Italy.

Regards

D. 

Edited 14 October , 2019 by zuluwar2006

[trajan]

On 04/10/2019 at 19:26, zuluwar2006 said:

My new addition on Greek bayonets. 

Short model bayonet for Manlicher 1903.

Overall condition fair with a lot of rust. Needs cleaning. 

The Saint George stamp is rusted but you can easily identify it. 

The G marking on the blade is clear. 

Unit marking on the crossguard is 4626 I

Regards

D. 

 

Unusual to see the St.George still left in place on these! I have about 6-8 of these 1903 models, all in original condition with original crossguards, etc., including a very rare Greek naval one. I have posted them on GWF somewhere...

[zuluwar2006]

Captain of Greek Army George Tsontos, from Creta, with a lebel bayonet, date 1900.

[trajan]

The latest addition to my Y1903 collection... I have one with a slightly better frog but that is packed away for the duration of COVID...!!! I'll try to get better photographs of this and the other one tomorrow. Can't remember now how many I have(!) but including my ultra-rare naval version I think 9 or so. Only two with original scabbards though. This is serial 1819 'delta'.

 

Julian

 

  

[AndyBsk]

Nice one M1903.

[zuluwar2006]

A photo from Balkan War 1912, 

Greek soldiers with a short model manlicher Greek 1903 bayonet, like the excellent late add of Julian. 

Regards

D. 

[AndyBsk]

Nice picture thanks for sharing it, interestingly the right soldier has the bayonet wrong way attached into scabbard.

[trajan]

20 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said:

A photo from Balkan War 1912, 

Greek soldiers with a short model manlicher Greek 1903 bayonet, like the excellent late add of Julian. 

Regards

D. 

 

5 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

Nice picture thanks for sharing it, interestingly the right soldier has the bayonet wrong way attached into scabbard.

 

That is a REALLY great photograph! If you don't mind I'll copy it and print it to go with my collection!

 

And yes, Andy, well-spotted as usual. Wonder how he got it in without realising his mistake - its a tight fit the right way round!

 

Julian

[AndyBsk]

Its a fotoatelier shooting, so i saw many similar mistakes on photos from studios.

[zuluwar2006]

Julian

Off course you can!!!! 

My pleasure. 

Also Andy is correct, Mayebe the soldier is a newman (freshman), but still the measure question is how he managed to press the bayonet inside the scabbard!!! 

Regards

D.