Piorun Posted 31 March , 2011 Share Posted 31 March , 2011 Sorry for your frustration, Rich. Keep us posted. Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 31 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2011 Sorry for your frustration, Rich. Keep us posted. Antony I'm quite enjoying the moaning about it to be honest!!! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 1 April , 2011 Share Posted 1 April , 2011 Oh Gawd, how frustrating. Let's hope they don't take long. And that Herbert Bishop reveals himself. Waiting and watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 1 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 1 April , 2011 Hello all Finally good news, they have arrived PTE. H Bishop 2589 5th West Yorkshire Regiment date of Disembarkation 13/10/15 (1) Disembodied as No. 41166 2nd West Yorkshire Regiment. Reserve Z. 1/3/19 This is all it says, so I was right in saying that the MIC had not shown his change of No. as it had with my other releatives, unfortunately this does not clear up what Dr means. Got to go out but with scan and post the Roll, hopefully before the weekend is out, but that could be difficult as it is my Stag Do Tomorrow Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 1 April , 2011 Share Posted 1 April , 2011 Driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 2 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 2 April , 2011 Driver. had we not suggested this before? what makes you think this now? Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 That's all that left of the puzzle. We now know that there was no mysterious Doctor H. Bishop 41166 lurking about - it was simply a missed number for an existing H. Bishop. No? Antony OOPS; forgot Drummer. It's been so long. mea culpa. Disregard Driver. Frogsmile posited a far better case for Drummer. Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 Got to go out but with scan and post the Roll, hopefully before the weekend is out, but that could be difficult as it is my Stag Do Tomorrow Rich ooooo are congratulations in order? If so, hope all goes well (on the stag do as well as THE day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 That's all that left of the puzzle. We now know that there was no mysterious Doctor H. Bishop 41166 lurking about - it was simply a missed number for an existing H. Bishop. No? Antony OOPS; forgot Drummer. It's been so long. mea culpa. Disregard Driver. Frogsmile posited a far better case for Drummer. Antony Frogsmile and Grumpy to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 Frogsmile and Grumpy to be fair a scholar and a gentleman sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 2 April , 2011 Share Posted 2 April , 2011 My apologies, Grumpy. Thank you, Frogsmile. I stand corrected - and chastened. Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 3 April , 2011 Share Posted 3 April , 2011 Thats great news Rich, Certainly confirms the hypothesis that your Herbert Bishop did in fact serve with the 2/5th (at home), 1/5th and 2nd Battalions. The only thing that threw us off was that his second number didn't make it on to the Medal Index Card from the Medal Rolls! So a worthwhile exercise I guess. Unsure why he got a new number...probably as earlier suggested he discharged and was then re-enlisted. Could be Drummer or possibly Driver. A pity he missed the M or the V....afraid we will never know for sure. In any event you can be sure his rank was actually Private. Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 4 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2011 Thats great news Rich, Certainly confirms the hypothesis that your Herbert Bishop did in fact serve with the 2/5th (at home), 1/5th and 2nd Battalions. The only thing that threw us off was that his second number didn't make it on to the Medal Index Card from the Medal Rolls! So a worthwhile exercise I guess. Unsure why he got a new number...probably as earlier suggested he discharged and was then re-enlisted. Could be Drummer or possibly Driver. A pity he missed the M or the V....afraid we will never know for sure. In any event you can be sure his rank was actually Private. Rgds Tim D forgive my ignoranceTimbut what is/are the M or the V? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 4 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2011 sorry brain just engaged Drm or Drv you meant Trying to trace his family to find out. My father met him when he was younger and thinks there was children, I know he used to live in pudsey by the park in the centre of town according to my father. Will let you all know if Ifind anything out Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 April , 2011 Share Posted 5 April , 2011 sorry brain just engaged Drm or Drv you meant Trying to trace his family to find out. My father met him when he was younger and thinks there was children, I know he used to live in pudsey by the park in the centre of town according to my father. Will let you all know if Ifind anything out Rich No Rich, in the Army it was/is generally Dvr (Driver) or Dmr (Drummer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piorun Posted 5 April , 2011 Share Posted 5 April , 2011 Rich: when your man went into the jewellers (or wherever) to have his I.D. engraved, he probably wrote down "DR. H. BISHOP". The jeweller, assuming he meant "doctor" mis-engraved this as "Dr." leading us down that doctor path. While this doesn't clarify the driver/drummer discussion, it might explain the initial confusion. The same thing happend to my father when, upon his marriage, his colleagues (comrades, pals) presented him with a silver cigarette box that was meant to say, in Polish, "od kolegow" (from your colleagues). The jeweller in Glasgow thought that the Polish lads were just ignorant and so he engraved the box for the lucky groom (Mr.) O.D. KOLEGOW. I still treasure it . Antony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 5 April , 2011 Share Posted 5 April , 2011 just one thought: drummers were infantry ONLY ...... drivers were at most ASC attached to infantry. Or of course RA or RE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 5 April , 2011 Share Posted 5 April , 2011 I know you have been able to get limited information from family....but Is there anyone out there in the family that remembers him actually saying what he did during the war? A Drummer and Driver were two fairly different roles, one which he was obviously proud enough about to wrote on his ID disc. As GRUMPY outlines the actual rank of Driver was generally the ambit of ASC, RE, RA etc. The recollection in my own family was that my grandfather worked with horses and when eventually I was able to track down a reference from his OC and his medals I found that he was a Private (which the OC referred to as 'driver') on the Regimental Transport of an infantry battalion. If he was a Drummer I would assume this would have been mentioned to someone at some time (unsure if Drummers were engaged with the band or stretcher bearers as musicians were with AIF infantry battalions). Rgds Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 April , 2011 Share Posted 6 April , 2011 Infantry drummers were not usually stretcher bearers, a role for the bandsmen. Drummers were a superior being, paid 1d per day more than a private or a bandsman, and duties, dependant on unit, included ammunition resupply, accompanying OC company in the field, some message running, and more recently HQ defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 April , 2011 Share Posted 6 April , 2011 Infantry drummers were not usually stretcher bearers, a role for the bandsmen. Drummers were a superior being, paid 1d per day more than a private or a bandsman, and duties, dependant on unit, included ammunition resupply, accompanying OC company in the field, some message running, and more recently HQ defence. Yes, I too have read of them fulfilling a number of different roles. Official policy in WW2 was that they form the Bn HQ Defence Platoon and from the late 1960s on, the battalion's Machine Gun platoon after the Vickers Gun was replaced. They seem to have had a far greater variety of roles in WW1 as you say. They have never been part of the band in the British service. Sadly the official role of bandsmen has changed due to their inability to meet modern requirements for regular re-certification of competency in the medical field. Yet another result of Euro regulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 6 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2011 I know you have been able to get limited information from family....but Is there anyone out there in the family that remembers him actually saying what he did during the war? A Drummer and Driver were two fairly different roles, one which he was obviously proud enough about to wrote on his ID disc. As GRUMPY outlines the actual rank of Driver was generally the ambit of ASC, RE, RA etc. The recollection in my own family was that my grandfather worked with horses and when eventually I was able to track down a reference from his OC and his medals I found that he was a Private (which the OC referred to as 'driver') on the Regimental Transport of an infantry battalion. If he was a Drummer I would assume this would have been mentioned to someone at some time (unsure if Drummers were engaged with the band or stretcher bearers as musicians were with AIF infantry battalions). Rgds Tim have asked around and no one seems to be able to help, I have one last person I am waiting to here from but she is the niece of the chap in question and I have never met here. The first time I contacted her it was about her father Abel (Mentioned in an earlier post about 3 sons and a grandson) unfortunately she had little on her father therefore I am not very hopeful about this subject. As I mentioned earlier my father believes Herbert had children and I am trying to find out if they had children also whom I may be able to get in touch with and ask them. Might sound like a long shot but if I can find my mothers birth mother and make contact after 55 years with only a name and little else I am sure I can do this. Knowing that the family were farming stock for generations and Herberts brother Abel worked on farms all his life before and after the war with horses (He was with the Hussars I think), I'd be more inclined to go with Driver. Will keep digging round and keep you all posted. Again thanks for every ones help on this one Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 12 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2011 ooooo are congratulations in order? If so, hope all goes well (on the stag do as well as THE day) Getting hitched 04-05-2011 Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 12 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2011 Sorry for not posting the Rolls yet, Laptop fried its hard drive last week now my scanner won't install properly and my flipin camera is playing silly ******* so I can't even take a picture of them. Well at least they say it comes in three, so I guess that's all three of mine!!! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavster1980 Posted 1 May , 2011 Author Share Posted 1 May , 2011 My man is the last entry on the Rolls Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 1 May , 2011 Share Posted 1 May , 2011 have asked around and no one seems to be able to help, I have one last person I am waiting to here from but she is the niece of the chap in question and I have never met here. The first time I contacted her it was about her father Abel (Mentioned in an earlier post about 3 sons and a grandson) unfortunately she had little on her father therefore I am not very hopeful about this subject. As I mentioned earlier my father believes Herbert had children and I am trying to find out if they had children also whom I may be able to get in touch with and ask them. Might sound like a long shot but if I can find my mothers birth mother and make contact after 55 years with only a name and little else I am sure I can do this. Knowing that the family were farming stock for generations and Herberts brother Abel worked on farms all his life before and after the war with horses (He was with the Hussars I think), I'd be more inclined to go with Driver. Will keep digging round and keep you all posted. Again thanks for every ones help on this one Rich As an infantryman he would not be titled driver. Private (Pte) or Drummer (Dr) yes, but Driver no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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