Imminent Release of Successful Identifications

[MelPack]

The release of information concerning the successful identifications is imminent.

Relatives will be contacted by telephone before the information is placed in the public domain.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article7061740.ece

Mel

[MelPack]

Reuters have confirmed that the Australian and British Ministries will be making a joint public announcement on Thursday:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE62E2Y920100315

Mel

[sarge2871]

Here we go then....its been a long long road, I hope for the phone call that we have waited so many years for, for all the familys sakes. Once again I would like to say `Thanks` to Lambis for bringing us this far, without people like him in the world things would never get done if we relied solely on our Goverments.

Colin Stalgis

[Fedelmar]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/scientis...00316-qavx.html

This is the breaking news in Australia this morning ...

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[chrisharley9]

Well done to all concerned with this project

[Andrew P]

Great news. I was talking to a relative of one of these soldiers this morning who has been informed about the positive identification of their relative. Needless to say that they are ecstatic.

It must be a very proud day for Lambis

[Auimfo]

75 Australians identified in the first round....an absolutely wonderful result. (and hopefully more to come).

I know the names of six of these men so far and several of these are via descendants that our volunteer group located through genealogical research. I'm not one to usually boast but I can't help feeling a little proud that our contribution has no doubt played a role in restoring the identities to quite a number of these men.

The full list is to be announced publicly tomorrow and I look forward to seeing the names of many of the men that have become like family to me.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[green_acorn]

Though at first a disbeliever of the DNA path, I am exceptionally pleased that Lambis and friends persisted and showed our respective governments the path. I am sure all of the fallen, not just the 75 identified, will be looking down at Fromelles with pleasure at what has been achieved. To all involved, "amateur" and professional, I extend a hearty well done, for the families of those fallen identified who now have a known grave I am sure they are grateful to all, including the the scientists, historians, archaeologists and much maligned "bureaucrats".

My only disappointment is that a newspaper decided to run an individual confirmatory story ahead of the official announcement, for the sake of a "scoop". I realise it is a personal issue for the person who advised the newspaper of their success in the search for their relative and I would want to read of that successful quest, after the official announcement. All of those families who provided DNA equally deserve the same column space, the other 74 families of identified fallen appear to have complied with the spirit and intent of the information embargo, "allow a single formal international announcement that equally benefits all". I am sure that in case of the particular newspaper concerned, they will now be less interested in the story of the other identified soldiers.

Anyway, hopefully out of all of this the CWGC and the scientific community can also say that they have sufficient DNA for X number of British soldiers, X number of Australian soldiers and X number of unknown nationality from Fromelles to make more identifications, if more descendants come forward.

Cheers,

Hendo

[Seadog]

Excellent news and the numbers are much greater than I expected. Looking forward to the publication of the names. Perhaps given the success which has been achieved here the 15 sets of British remains found last year at Beaucamps-Ligny will be treated with the same degree of scientific analysis.

Well done to all concerned.

Regards

Norman

[ianw]

This is terrific news - and I can't even get upset about the slight jumping of the gun in respect of one casualty. In the great scheme of things, it really doesn't matter and I will just put it down to the joy of the ID and the enthusiasm resulting from it.

The confirmation that we will be able to walk in a new cemetery with a considerable number of named headstones is little short of a miracle. It will complete an act of re-dedication by our generation of the whole concept of Remembrance. Yes, of course the process has been controversial, full of examples of human failings and foibles - but the end result will be simply magnificent.

I like to say thanks again to Lambis. He must be ecstatic. Well done to him.

And a well done also to all the Forum folk such as Tim and Victoria who did lots of donkey work to assist the ID process in UK and Australia. They should be proud of their efforts.

And I agree with Norman that the BL 15 should get identical treatment if practicable.

[Peter Bennett]

Will the database records for VC Corner cemetery be amended and th panels replaced to reflect the findings ?

[ianw]

I seems invidious to me to consider expunging the names of the identified men from places where they have been commemorated for years. What purpose would this serve? Reference to their new place of interment should be proudly added but the story of how they were "lost" but now are "found" should be told by the continuing physical existence of the old commmemorative arrangements.

[chrisharley9]

Ian

unfortunately that is not allowed as each person is allowed only one place of commemoration according to CWGC rules

Chris

[Tjap]

75 Australians identified in the first round....an absolutely wonderful result. (and hopefully more to come).

I know the names of six of these men so far and several of these are via descendants that our volunteer group located through genealogical research. I'm not one to usually boast but I can't help feeling a little proud that our contribution has no doubt played a role in restoring the identities to quite a number of these men.

The full list is to be announced publicly tomorrow and I look forward to seeing the names of many of the men that have become like family to me.

Cheers,

Tim L.

I am not sure where it says in that press release that the 75 soldiers identified were Australian.

If the proportion of those identified as British approaches 50 % and that most of the identifications have been from DNA evidence as opposed to other forensic evidence then there may need to be a substantial review of the Australian "Missing Lsts".

This, in turn, would certainly be an endorsement of Mel Pack's modus operandi and for Victoria Burbidge's words of caution on the completeness of the "Australian Missing list".

I await the outcome with great interest as there are still many years left to see if something can be done to identify the remainder.

Best,

Howard

[phil@basildon]

Not wanting to pour cold water on the success of identifying 75 of the men buried at Fromelles. That still leaves 174 unidentified. Furthermore those families who donated DNA and whose relatives have not been found must feel deeply disappointed. Our thoughts should be with those families that have not had 'closure' and those who remain without a name.

Having said that a success rate of 30% was far better than I had dare hoped. Hopefully relatives will still come forward and DNA and other forensic methods will continue to advance.

[Fedelmar]

Howard ... I think you will find in the press release that I posted the 75 Australians were mentioned in the very first line.

In defence of the early anouncement of Private Willis being one of the identified. His was a very special case in that he is Tim Whitford's great uncle. Tim W has been working with Lambis on the Fromelles lads for quite some time not to mention being in touch with many family members of the other soldiers.

Tim L and I have had a very rewarding, emotional and busy day today as the names of the identified trickled through to us.

On behalf of the soldiers, their families, Tim L and myself I would like to extend our heartfelt appreciation to all the people across the globe who have helped us to piece together the histories so that descendants could be located.

Lest we forget!

[Tjap]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/scientis...00316-qavx.html

This is the breaking news in Australia this morning ...

Bright Blessings

Sandra

The first line says "Scientists have confirmed the identities of 75 of the 250 soldiers buried in a German-dug mass grave in Fromelles and forgotten for more than 90 years." - no mention of nationality - hence my being puzzled.

H

[ianw]

Yes, this is definitely a glass one third full rather than two thirds empty.

I have a relative "lost" in the Ypres salient and rejoice at the IDs that have been granted to the last mortal remains of these men that were lost at Fromelles - I think the "unlucky" relatives will also be happy to have taken part in the process and be comforted by the possibility that their relatives will now lie "Known unto God" in the beautiful new cemetery at Fromelles.

[Fedelmar]

In addition radio and TV news over here, plus an anouncement from the Prime Minister it states that 75 of the 250. I inadvertantly typed 'Australians'. However, there is believed to be 196 Australians amongst the 250. So you may well be right Howard. Fingers crossed there are some UK lads amongst the first round.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[dfaulder]

Ian

unfortunately that is not allowed as each person is allowed only one place of commemoration according to CWGC rules

Chris

Can someone point me towards:

• IWGC/CWGC Charter (as amended)
• Working Principles (refered to the Annual Report)
• Rules

I am with IanW, if the remains of someone are found and they get a named grave, it would seem a pity to blot out the name from a memorial where that person may have been grieved over for nearly a century. The "find" might be celebrated by some small mark against the name to indicate that the remains of an individual have been subsequently found.

Does the charter specifically require the removal of such names from memorials - or is it a matter of reviewing principles and rules in the light of the current situation?

David

[Fedelmar]

I have just been advised by Tim Whitford (great nephew of Pte Harry Willis) that during the conversation with the Army he asked if he could discuss the result with the media and he was advised that they had no problem with it.

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[MelPack]

Congratulations to Tim and Sandra for finally reaping the rewards of all your magnificent hard work.

I really hope that your figure rises significantly when the newly scheduled Identification Board takes place in April/May.

There are a hundred issues and questions that I could raise and pose but, I hope for the time being that both of you are savouring the moment.

Mel

[Fedelmar]

It has been a very emotional and rewarding day for us Mel. So far 17 names have trickled through. Tomorrow will be even busier.

Thanks heaps for your support and thoughts Mel ... much appreciated.

Congratulations to Victoria, Michelle and yourself for your hardwork and all the other people that have supported you all.

The best thanks must go to our mate Lambis

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[ShirlD]

Heard the radio interviews today - big lump in the throat, very moving story from one, and when I heard the other, I thought 'I know that man'!!! good one Tim .

I hope as time goes on, more and more families will have the news they hope for, and maybe for some the unexpected news of a relative they had no idea was lost at a place called Fromelles.

Never forgotten, especially by those who have worked so hard to find them and give them all a final resting place

Cheers

Shirley

[Fromelles]

Not wanting to pour cold water on the success of identifying 75 of the men buried at Fromelles. That still leaves 174 unidentified. Furthermore those families who donated DNA and whose relatives have not been found must feel deeply disappointed. Our thoughts should be with those families that have not had 'closure' and those who remain without a name.

Having said that a success rate of 30% was far better than I had dare hoped. Hopefully relatives will still come forward and DNA and other forensic methods will continue to advance.

Right from the start I didn't get too confident that my Uncle’s remains would definitely be discovered. I knew his remains would be in the Pheasant Wood pits but there were a lot of reasons why his identity could remain unknown. I think you would only be setting yourself up for a great disappointment if you expect a positive identification.

So, when the phone call came today with the news that Our Allan had been positively identified I was naturally over the moon. That said, with or without a positive identification I no more or less honour his sacrifice.

Dan