medal ribbon photos

[Tyneside Chinaman]

An earlier post requested a VC heres Thomas Kenny who carried in Lt Philip Brown at La Houssie in 1915 The ribbon looks almost white

[MBrockway]

Returning to Sergeant-Master-Tailor G. Simpson of the Rifles Depot (see Sgt Simpson's picture above) ...

I managed to locate him in the 1904 KRRC Chronicle where he is described as having been "born in the 3rd Battalion KRRC" and served 21 years in the KRRC and Rifles Depot and 5 years in the Rifle Brigade, so he certainly could have served in Afghanistan.

Luckily this seems to also be the source of the photo in Military Modelling and I've managed to get a better image of his medals:

The left-most ribbon seems to be a single solid colour with a "watering" effect. Phil suggested it might be the Afghanistan Medal 1878-1880, but IIRC that had thin side stripes, whereas up to 1916, the MSM was a solid crimson only without the white edges. MSM may be a better match in that case??

Running with the rest as per Phil's post, that would give us:

Meritorious Service Medal

Egypt 1882-89 with three clasps

Queen's Sudan 1897

Queen's South Africa with three clasps (? Cape Colony, Orange Free State, Transvaal?)

King's South Africa with two clasps (which will be South Africa 1901 and South Africa 1902)

Army Long Service & Good Conduct Medal

Khedive's Sudan Medal with Clasp

Khedive's Star - one of the variations

As regards the ~1898 date cited by Military Modelling magazine, that looks well shakey now: as Phil spotted, he's wearing QSA and KSA. Also apparently until 1902 it was not permitted to wear MSM and LSGC together ?? That suggests a date between 1902 and early 1905 when the photo was published in the KRRC Chronicle.

I had a further thought re the LSGC being too far to the left in the sequence - the two Khedive's medals were presumably regarded as being issued by a foreign power, so would properly follow the LSGC - does that fly?

The misleading reproduction of the ribbon colours is very surprising: the Khedive Sudan Medal seems dark-light-dark, which is an inversion of the actual ribbon, and the Khedive Star appears very light indeed. Both these "light" areas are in fact a dark blue. A warning there eh?

Cheers,

Mark

[Muerrisch]

Two more good contributions. The VC against SD is a good contrast. I will dig my 'Great War' out of the attic to graze for gongs on the great and the good.

[Philip Wilson]

This is but part of a much larger portrait photo of Nelson Graham Anderson taken at some stage after he received the authority to wear the Order of the Crown of Roumania - Commander (see London Gazette 20.9.19). The actual written authority to wear this decoration was sent to him on the 16th August 1920 when he was T/Brigadier, Dep.Q.M.G at The Staff College, Camberley.

As for his Orders, Decorations and Medals - they are as follows:

C.B -worn at the neck

C.M.G - worn below

Order of Crown of Roumania - Commander below that.

His court mounted group is as follows:

D.S.O

Queen's South Africa - 5 clasps

King's South Africa - 2 clasps

India General Service Medal - clasp North West Frontier 1908

Africa General Service Medal - clasp Somaliland 1908-10

1914 Star and Bar

British War Medal

Victory Medal with MID emblem

Legion d'Honneur, Knight (France) with rosette

He was promoted to Major-General on 1st January 1924 with the Royal Army Service Corps. He commenced the Great War as a Major with the Army Service Corps, promoted Lt.Colonel 6 April 1917, Brevet Colonel 1 January 1917 but held the rank of T/Brigadier General from 5 August 1916. He received 8 MID's for the Great War. He was sometime an A.D.C to H.M the King.

Philip

[Muerrisch]

the Indian and later African campaign ones are a nice addition to the database, thank you.

[Staffsyeoman]

Returning to Sergeant-Master-Tailor G. Simpson of the Rifles Depot (see Sgt Simpson's picture above) ...

I managed to locate him in the 1904 KRRC Chronicle where he is described as having been "born in the 3rd Battalion KRRC" and served 21 years in the KRRC and Rifles Depot and 5 years in the Rifle Brigade, so he certainly could have served in Afghanistan.

Luckily this seems to also be the source of the photo in Military Modelling and I've managed to get a better image of his medals:

The left-most ribbon seems to be a single solid colour with a "watering" effect. Phil suggested it might be the Afghanistan Medal 1878-1880, but IIRC that had thin side stripes, whereas up to 1916, the MSM was a solid crimson only without the white edges. MSM may be a better match in that case??

Running with the rest as per Phil's post, that would give us:

Meritorious Service Medal.....

I had a further thought re the LSGC being too far to the left in the sequence - the two Khedive's medals were presumably regarded as being issued by a foreign power, so would properly follow the LSGC - does that fly?

With the better definition I can see that the first medal has a 'curling' suspender - which rules out the Afghan Medal - which had a straight one. I have been told in the past that the order of wear of the MSM moved around, but it feels wrong for an MSM to be up front. I would say it is an Edward VII DCM - as there seems to be a head on the medal rather than the trophy and crest of a Victoria issue - but surely he could be verified as a DCM winner (the three bands quite often merge in pictures like this - I think reflections off the silk cancel them out). Otherwise, yes, quite right, foreign medals/awards bring up the end, in chronological order of award, nothing else (such as grade, or alphabetical name of country as someone suggested to me once - wrongly!)

The picture of Anderson is astonishing in that the yellow of the African General Service Medal ribbon has all but vanished.

[MBrockway]

... I would say it is an Edward VII DCM .... but surely he could be verified as a DCM winner

He is not captioned as DCM in the 1904 KRRC Chronicle plate - and the Chronicle is normally quite fastidious on that sort of thing.

Of course, there's no mention in the caption of an MSM either! Nor elsewhere in the 1904 KRRC Chronicle.

Weren't the older MSM much more strictly "rationed" so perhaps earned a higher place in the medal sequence. I think there was a fixed pot of money to allocate across the holders of the medal and new awards could not be made until an existing holder died.

I'll see if I can dig out more about him and maybe run some LG searches.

Cheers,

Mark

[Muerrisch]

I have just earned a double rupture dragging my complete 'Great War' down from the attic. [Wonder how much it is worth, unbound, all 270-odd weekly issues?] .

My mission is 'hunt the medal ribbons' which should keep me out of the pub!

[high wood]

Grumpy, why would you want to keep out of the pub?

Here is my contribution, an unknown RSM with something in front of his Military Medal and 1914 or 1914/15 Star. That something has a clasp on it.

[Muerrisch]

That something can only be a British award upstream of the MM.

I just wonder if it is the VC with the new-fangled bronze replica attached?

[high wood]

I was hoping that you would suggest that as I had not dared to raise the possibility that it might be a V.C. I will try and post a clearer image. If it is the V.C. he should be identifiable.

[high wood]

There is nothing on the photograph to identify where it was taken or which regiment that the man served in. However, there are a few clues that might help with an identification. The photograph was taken in England after February 1918 as they are wearing overseas chevrons. The soldier is wearing the crown of an RSM and three overseas service chevrons; he is also wearing regimental buttons with the main design inside a circle.

The three men could be brothers.

[Muerrisch]

just to be helpful in the search, he is a WO II [ie CSM or equivalent] in the photo.

[Muerrisch]

for starters, who better than WSC ....... ?

[Muerrisch]

and a nice set of commemoratives .......

[Andrew Upton]

I just wonder if it is the VC with the new-fangled bronze replica attached?

Whatever it is, it's very shiny - modern ones at least are dulled/bronzed finish, the same as the actual medal, and I would have thought the same would have been true at the time (not certain though). The shape does seem right though...

[Muerrisch]

Whatever it is, it's very shiny - modern ones at least are dulled/bronzed finish, the same as the actual medal, and I would have thought the same would have been true at the time (not certain though). The shape does seem right though...

I also think that bars to gallantry were indicated by the [shiny] silver rosettes: this might be DCM and bar, therefore.

[Staffsyeoman]

I completely agree with Grumpy - DCM and Bar. Too shiny and wrong shape for the VC device, a later innovation anyway?

[Muerrisch]

The VC on the ribbon was by AO, c. 1916, I can dig the ref. out if needs be.

Herewith Willy Robertson:

[high wood]

Yes, the white blob on the medal bar does appear to be very shiny, but that may be because I played around with the contrast before I posted the photograph. We may never be able to identify the medal that the ribbon signifies as the picture is just too indistinct. That said, the ribbon does appear to be of all one colour unlike that of the DCM.

[Muerrisch]

off to the smoke 2morrow for a couple of days, normal service will resume end of week.

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

An interesting one of a Military Accountant courtesy of BMF Site,, wearing Egypt,QSA & Clasps {note way ribbon appears in photo!!}LSGC & Khedives Star...

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Close Up Of Group

[Muerrisch]

Nice one ...... the QSA ribbon has a lot to answer for!

[Philip Wilson]

Here are the Medal Ribbons being worn by James McCudden VC shortly before his death

in July 1918.

Top row Victoria Cross with miniature VC on ribbon, Distinguished Service Order with rosette which denotes a bar, Military Cross with rosette which denotes a bar.

Second row Military Medal, 1914 Star, Croix de Guerre (France)

Authority for wearing of a miniature Victoria Cross on the ribbon of the VC was published in Army Orders of 24 March 1917, those with a VC and Bar to wear two miniature VCs side by side on the ribbon. Prior to the discussion on the 17 March 1917 the display of a single miniature VC on the VC ribbon denoted possession of a bar as agreed on 16 August 1916. For further details see pages 268 and 269 of 'The Evolution of the Victoria Cross' by the late Michael J.Crook.

For details of his medal entitlement see http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/ccroyeng.htm

Philip