Myrtle Posted 13 May , 2009 Share Posted 13 May , 2009 Perhaps it necessitates complaints from people to have the matter rectified. Bright Blessings Sandra The more emails questioning this omission, the better. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 14 May , 2009 Share Posted 14 May , 2009 Yes, he ploughed a very lonely furrow for a number of years and was the subject of patronising reactions bordering on the derisive - but he saw it through. Of course, in today's "corporate" world, singleminded individual activity often seems to be an embarassment to officialdom and I think that this is the case here. He should take comfort in the fact that those who really care appreciate his efforts. Perhaps the Forum should institute a gold medal for services to the memory of the Great War. Lambis would be a worthy recipient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 14 May , 2009 Share Posted 14 May , 2009 Perhaps the Forum should institute a gold medal for services to the memory of the Great War. Lambis would be a worthy recipient. In the mean time send an email to the CWGC Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 14 May , 2009 Share Posted 14 May , 2009 Quite happy to do that but I don't think you are going to drag a fulsome tribute to Lambis out of the CWGC. Personally, I think he might well be appreciative of an acknowledgement from this Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 14 May , 2009 Share Posted 14 May , 2009 Prowse Point Military Cemetery,Warneton. This is the only Cemetery that i know of to have been named after a person.Major,later Brigadier General Charles Bertie Prowse,DSO,of the 1st Somerset Light Infantry,who was KIA on 01.07.16 while commanding the 11th infantry Brigade at Beaumont Hamel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 14 May , 2009 Share Posted 14 May , 2009 I am not sure what the relevance to this topic is, but to my knowledge there are at least two other cemeteries named after individuals on the Western Front: Drummond Cemetery, Raillencourt - named after Lt R. J. Drummond, R.A.F. who was the first to be buried in it. Lowrie Cemetery, Havrincourt - named after the 3rd Division burial officer. Plus at Gallipoli: Plugge's Plateau Cemetery - Named after Lieutenant Colonel Arthur Plugge of the Auckland Regiment NZEF. Johnston's Jolly Cemetery - Named after Brigadier-General G. J. Johnston, C.B., C.M.G., V.D. Courtney's And Steel's Post Cemetery - Named after Lieutenant Colonel Richard E. Courtney, C.B., V.D. & Major T. H. Steel of the 14th Bn AIF. Quinn's Post Cemetery - Named after Captain Hugh Quinn, 15th Bn AIF. Walkers Ridge Cemetery - Named after then Brig-Gen H. B. Walker, K.C.B., K.C.M.G., D.S.O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 14 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2009 Ah. Another of your unnamed but "reliable sources", Peter. I guess I'll take this thread with the same sized pinch of salt as last time you mentioned such a source. Hi John, I do not put the names of sources to protect those persons (sounds a bit like a B-Grade Hollywood Dislaimer - doesn't it). You may take my posts with "a pinch of salt" but in the end, are the sources correct and truthfull? I think that both you and the other interested Members of this Forum will find out that these are not rumours but fact, otherwise I would not waste this Forum's time with the ravings of a ratbag. Time will tell and the members will be my Judge. So far, I have been hanged by one Member without the benefit of a trial. Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 15 May , 2009 Share Posted 15 May , 2009 Lambis arrives in France on Friday I hope he gets a warm welcome. I wonder when he plans to use his single entry ticket. Perhaps his physical presence will make the powers that be realise how unfair their stance is to the "Father of the Fromelles Project". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 15 May , 2009 Share Posted 15 May , 2009 As the story goes it is the Australian Army. Perhaps commonsense will prevail. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 15 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 15 May , 2009 Hi Sandra, Yes, that is the same feeling I got and there are two of them that I could put a name to. One of them behaved in a most unprofessional manner when I was at the Compound last year. I was tempted to report his childish behavior to the Australian Ambassador in Paris. He not only made me ashamed that he was an Australian but he also embarrassed the Director of the CWGC-France, to whom I was in a discussion with. Go Lambis, go! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 May , 2009 Share Posted 15 May , 2009 So far, I have been hanged by one Member without the benefit of a trial. Depends what you feel you've been convicted of. What you have said may be entirely accurate. Or it may not be. How could I possibly know which is which? All I see, on the one hand, is your story making accusations of some odd and ill-defined sort without the benfit of any substantiation. On the other hand, there is the link to what seems to be a balanced and fairly detailed account in the Australian press. Just the sort of differing accounts juries weigh up all the time - to use your own analogy. However, I seem to be in minority of one in questioning your assertions. Which means I must be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 15 May , 2009 Share Posted 15 May , 2009 I am awfully sorry folks. I've become rather obsessed with Fromelles 1915 .. of course I am aware of the huge interest in the 1916 Australian (and British) actions BUT somebody fill me in (soundbite terms) .. who is Lambis? Genuine query not messing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59165 Posted 15 May , 2009 Share Posted 15 May , 2009 As the story goes it is the Australian Army. Perhaps commonsense will prevail. Bright Blessings Sandra General Mike O'brien's the one to talk to. Nice bloke but,he will stop basically anyone going onto the dig site &...I get the feeling he's just following orders but,I also get the feeling that Oxford are to blame for this.New on the ground & (nearly) 1st to claim credit. As to Gen.Mike.I can't speak more highly of him.Listen to this.It may remind some of you of an aside to Birdwood. I'd spent a while (from a wee distance) inspecting the Generals boots (well bulled) at the Rouges Bancs mem last saturday & said to me friends & the General,"Bloody 'ell,been a long time since I've done that"(bulled boots) Gen.Mike,as an aside,not even turning his head but,in passing,"bloody long time since I done that aswell*wink*. Speaks volumes for the bloke. Oz Gov. are getting more & more involved in the French WW1 stuff,& they include their military in there projects.Nothing wrong with that. Lets get the kids buried & then we can start talking about who did what & when. Lambis not out to seek attention to himself.Blokes a saint already so,he don't need to. I cant see any Aussie bad input/attitude for this project.Just bloody politics at the end of the day. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59165 Posted 16 May , 2009 Share Posted 16 May , 2009 I am awfully sorry folks. I've become rather obsessed with Fromelles 1915 .. of course I am aware of the huge interest in the 1916 Australian (and British) actions BUT somebody fill me in (soundbite terms) .. who is Lambis? Genuine query not messing about. Des,just check out the long running Fromelles thread.Most of it is on there but,Lambis is the bloke that checked out the German records,did all the leg work for & found the mass burial pits at Fromelles. It's basically the bloke who has done more for WW1 commemoration than all of us put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john jerome mcmanus Posted 16 May , 2009 Share Posted 16 May , 2009 G'day Des If you can get hold of Patrick Lindsay's "Fromelles" (Hardie Grant Books 2007) it will tell all. Regards Pop (Sean McManus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john jerome mcmanus Posted 16 May , 2009 Share Posted 16 May , 2009 G'day all, Thanks to those that replied to my question to Stephen Nulty's post about the Fromelles Cemetery being named after Lambis. What I was aiming at, however, was is their a precedent for such a memorial being named after a civilian and a person who still lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 16 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2009 Hi John, You are correct in that Mike's post with the link to the story as run in the Australian press did fill a gaping hole left in my original post. I must keep that in mind in the future. Mike, thank you for posting the link. Spending six and sometimes seven days a week out on the battlefields, I am told all sorts of things and many I reject after I have applied my own filter (hope it's a balanced one), but some strike me as valid and coming from a person I have grown to trust. Whilst I am not always sworn to secrecy, I know that if I blab it out to the world and put out their name, then they could "shut down on me". Not good for me and in a way, the members of the Forum would be denied something I feel is worthy of a Post. I really believe in this Forum, I am at times stunned by the level of knowledge of some individuals, and I am pulled towards posting info from reliable individuals that I hear but am concered that I may disadvantage the individual. So, do I keep the info to myself and deny the other members of the Forum, or pass it on whilst protecting the source, just in case? Tough one for me to decide and yes, it does leaves me open to criticism. But, as this is a public forum I must expect it to happen occassionally. I feel that it is appropriate to point out to those names who appear in my signature, and there are more of them yet to be listed there, and I would not deliberately sully their names by peddling lies or trying to grandstand. Should there be a time for me "to eat humble pie" on this Forum from any of my posts, then I am tough enough to do it. Proud to be a Member, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 16 May , 2009 Share Posted 16 May , 2009 Well said, Peter. I don't envy you your choices. Lambis took the shyte from those who said it wasn't so, and he kept on. Now his research and his word is found to be true, and what does he get? Those that denied him, and those that ignored him, should really wipe the egg off their face, and admit to, and acknowledge who found these men. If he hadn't kept at it, if he had shrugged his shoulders and walked away, there would be no dig at Pheasant Wood. Lambis and the ones who believed him and who have helped him, surely deserve to be there at the end result. Regards Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 16 May , 2009 Share Posted 16 May , 2009 Lambis and the ones who believed him and who have helped him, surely deserve to be there at the end result. I've no wish to fall out with anyone over this but, depending on one's definition of "end result" surely that will be the case. To me, the "end result" here will be the reburial of these men including, where it has been possible, the erection of named headstones. It is inconceivable that they will not be an official ceremony of some form and it is equally inconceivable that Mr Englezos would not be an honoured invited guest. Do I think that, in the meantime, he should have the opportunity to be escorted round to see for himself the excavation site and the "examination facility"? Well, of course, he should. And I'm sure he will be. Do I think he might have a role to play outside of the "controlled areas" in taking the project forward? Possibly - although I don't have sufficient technical knowledge to know what this job might be, or if he would want such a role. However, do I think that his efforts give him some right to demand access to the sites, overriding what are alleged to be the views of the professionals charged with the very delicate job of exhumation? That seems to be the basic thrust of comments on this thread, although it is wrapped up in innuendo. So, to be clear, no, I think he has absolutely no right to that. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShirlD Posted 17 May , 2009 Share Posted 17 May , 2009 I can understand Oxford being careful in not allowing access to the site, after all where do you draw the line in terms of who can and cannot be there However, IMHO Lambis is in a class of his own, and it just looks thoroughly mean and petty not to allow him there. The giving of 1 visit seems odd. Like they have had to do this, certainly no recognition that thanks to him they have this incredibly important task to undertake. Surely it would not be that hard for the professionals to talk to him and come to a mutual, respectful relationship while this is all going on. I cannot imagine he has "demanded" anything. I think we just expected he would naturally and deservedly have earned the right to have been a part of the ongoing process of finally proving this is a major burial ground, through to the stage of individual burial. He has certainly convinced me (from afar) that he is not a stirrer, he has a heart-felt desire to see these lads properly buried and honoured. Cheers Shirley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 17 May , 2009 Share Posted 17 May , 2009 I agree with Shirley's points and would ask John to consider how he would feel if he travelled half way round the world like Lambis to a place that he loves to only be given one opportunity to visit. To suggest that Lambis has demanded access seems a very harsh interpretation of what is happening here.. I would still like to know what has happened this weekend - for all we know some sort of accomodation has been made at Fromelles. But however I look at this, I see an injustice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 17 May , 2009 Share Posted 17 May , 2009 Question. Did or did not Lambis fund all his research himself? I've met the man, and he is not a star gazer, but one who believes in getting off your butt, and doing what needs to be done, even in the face of much criticism. Surely, as Shirley said, correct forensic procedure can be carried out, while still allowing the man who started it all, on site. Tim, you can cut in here, it is after all, one of your areas of expertise. As I alluded to before, the man, Lambis, had the conviction to follow his gut feelings, his research through and now because of his research and his persistance, some of the lost, have been found. C'mon, this shouldn't be about Governments, who won the contract to dig the men up, who is boss on site. It should not be about oneup-manship This is a simple story about a man who followed through on his beliefs, convictions and his research, and found those who had been missing. So very many years after they died. They are not missing now, they are found. And who found them? Why can he not be allowed to follow the process through to the end? Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 17 May , 2009 Share Posted 17 May , 2009 As one of Lambis' supporters and researchers (along with the other one) I can say that I am proud to be associated with the man. However, in recent weeks the 'hidden agenda' has become apparant and I am NOT HAPPY with that! Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 18 May , 2009 Share Posted 18 May , 2009 However, in recent weeks the 'hidden agenda' has become apparant "Hidden" no longer, then, Sandra. Always best to have these things fully out in the open, I'm sure everyone would agree, wouldn't they? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 18 May , 2009 Share Posted 18 May , 2009 Quite agree with John that any agenda is most certainly now not hidden - pretty transparent petty officialdom in my view. I would be very interested in hearing what Lambis did over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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