Peter and Ellen Posted 9 May , 2009 Share Posted 9 May , 2009 Some of you may have read that Lambis and Tim were banned from the Pheasant Wood Site during the exhumation process and may be permitted one visit each, only. Well, really they failed to get permission from only one of the Stakeholders. An Australian Defence Spokeswoman is reported to have said that Oxford Archeology were concerned about having too many people on the site during the exhumation. Great SPIN. Let's blame Oxford Archeology, it appears as though they are the spoil sports! What she did not say was that Oxford Archeology had already said they were OK with Lambis being involved. I bet the Defence Spokeswoman told the truth as she knew it, its just that her minders forgot to tell her the whole truth. Sorry, I prefer to have all the cards on the table and not this form of dirty politics. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 9 May , 2009 Share Posted 9 May , 2009 Sorry, I prefer to have all the cards on the table and not this form of dirty politics. Peter Could you please explain, for those of us who are bystanders in this, what might be meant by "dirty politics"? Presumably you mean that someone is playing that game. Who is it? What are they doing or saying? What might be their motivation? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond7 Posted 9 May , 2009 Share Posted 9 May , 2009 Agree with above. Mystified. Calm analysis please. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I am amazed that there should be any form of politics, dirty or clean, involved in such an exercise which should be dignified but efficient. Without knowing anything about any of the participants I can see that in the interests of these criteria access might have to be limited and not everyone who might wish to be there could be.. The somewhat apoplectic posting implies some underhand motive in excluding some people which as has been said is mystifying, this is a solemn event and not the Da Vinci Code after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I'm guessing there is the potential for a lot of money and kudos to be made here, a point I think touched on previously, plus maybe some careers made, I bet those dissertations are being typed up as a continuing process every evening. Televison rights, which member of the archaeology team will be fronting the documentary? I wonder? They certainly don't want to share the limelight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter and Ellen Posted 10 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2009 It is my belief, and wish, that with subjects such as this, governments and senior civil servants should leave SPIN out of the processes. It would be nice if we had a media statement such as this, "we (stakeholder's name) have decided (for the following reasons) that it is not considered appropriate that (person X) be permitted to be on site. Ok, we can agree or disagree with the decision but at least we know who made the decision and the stated reason. We also must respect that they have the authority to make that decision and then be held publicly accountable. To me, this is open and honest. For one stakeholder to say, it's not us, it's them over there that made us refuse Lambis access, when, according to my very reliable source, that's just not true. I call that SPIN. Naturally, one stakeholder is not going to correct the media statement of another stakeholder, especially when it is the one who signs the cheque. Not fair. Hence my sincere and genuine disappointment. SPIN, deliberate deflection or deliberately encouraging people to form an incorrect conclusion, by government ministers or staff, to me, is dirty politics. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I find this news enormously disappointing. As has been said, Governments are now involved so along comes the spin. Fromelles will generate a lot of column inches and international TV coverage and the politicians and officials will be very jealous about sharing it - as has been said, various careers might well if be positively affected by having a good "Fromelles". I suspect that Lambis is a bit of embarassment to quite a number of establishment figures who will recall how they obstructed his initial inquiries and tried to downplay his investigations into the site. Much better for some that Fromelles is spun to accentuate the role of benevolent Governments rather than humbly acknowledge the efforts of one man who tirelessly worked to give burials to those "out in the cold" at Fromelles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 according to my very reliable source, Ah. Another of your unnamed but "reliable sources", Peter. I guess I'll take this thread with the same sized pinch of salt as last time you mentioned such a source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I know nothing about the 'politics' of this situation but restricting access on the basis of potential DNA contamination seems to be a fairly p*ss poor excuse. I may be wrong but, my understanding is that if any viable DNA is to be recovered then it will be from the pulp in the interior of teeth. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 If the contamination route is really being used then that is a nonsense. These remains, however many there are, have been gently rotting and fermenting together for 90+ years. If there is any cross contamination it surely already exisits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 Lambis arrives in France on Friday. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 http://www.goldcoastmail.com.au/story/2009...s-grave-banned/ Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 MIke Thanks for that link. It seems to provide to balanced and informative commentary on the subject John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 A classic Government spin operation seems to be detailed in the newspaper article - velvety praise for Lambis from the Veterans Affairs Minister but the steel door then slammed on him by the site authorities. Not nice - and I wish I was 100% sure that his ethnicity didn't have something to do with this profoundly unsympathetic treatment of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 With TV, film and book rights, academic glory and political capital all to be made from such an important discovery and project, it is no surprise at all that such things happen. It will be interesting to see to what extent Lambis is credited with the discovery when it is all written up and carved in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 I hope Lambis is keeping note of it all, there's a bestseller in his side of the story. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pighills Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 Just what I was thinking Mike!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 I will comfort myself with a belief that when those lads finally lay at rest in the new cemetery, they will know who to thank. Politicians and officialdom will not then be able to deny him his right to walk on the green sward of that place with pride in a job seen through to a great end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 If the contamination route is really being used then that is a nonsense. These remains, however many there are, have been gently rotting and fermenting together for 90+ years. If there is any cross contamination it surely already exisits. Exactly! So, unless someone is disposed to clog dance on the jaws of remains, the contamination excuse is utterly implausible. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john jerome mcmanus Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 G'day all, I have met Lambis, Tim, Neville Kidd, Chris Bryett and many others who have been instrumental in the discovery of the 'Missing of Fromelles' and feel that they have been sorely treated. I understand that where DNA is hoped to be extracted it is critical to prevent any cross contamination but surely the same methods used by the excavators ( eg gloves, masks, suits) could be employed by Lambis and co.! I have been a student of archaeology and seen some tremendous egos that, unfortunately, seem to be striving for kudos in this dig at the expense of Lambis, whose baby this truly is, and his team of fellow researchers. I hope that he will achieve his due accolades when the last of the fallen of Fromelles are hopefully identified and finally laid to rest with the dignity that they deserve. Regards Pop (Sean McManus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 They should just name the new cemetery after Lambis, ensuring his name is forever associated with these men. "Fromelles Englezos British & Australian Military Cemetery" or some variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john jerome mcmanus Posted 12 May , 2009 Share Posted 12 May , 2009 G'day Stephen, A very interesting thought! I do ask, however, is there a precedent for such a thing? Can anyone tell me of a War Graves Cemetery that has been named after an individual? Would it be fitting? I agree that Lambis deserves great honour for the work he has done in locating these loat warriors but I somehow doubt that this idea would be considered. Perhaps a plaque at the cemetery gates telling of Lambis' research and conviction would be justified? Regards Pop (Sean McManus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle Posted 13 May , 2009 Share Posted 13 May , 2009 On reading the GWGC piece about Fromelles on their website, prior to reading this thread, I noticed an absence of recognition for Lambis Englezos's tireless work leading to this discovery. This is the exact quote: In May 2008, after several years of painstaking research and investigation, five burial pits dating from the First World War were identified at Pheasant Wood, near Fromelles in northern France. Why shouldn't Mr. Englezos receive a mention? He surely deserves it. Myrtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedelmar Posted 13 May , 2009 Share Posted 13 May , 2009 On reading the GWGC piece about Fromelles on their website, prior to reading this thread, I noticed an absence of recognition for Lambis Englezos's tireless work leading to this discovery. This is the exact quote: In May 2008, after several years of painstaking research and investigation, five burial pits dating from the First World War were identified at Pheasant Wood, near Fromelles in northern France. Why shouldn't Mr. Englezos receive a mention? He surely deserves it. Myrtle Perhaps it necessitates complaints from people to have the matter rectified. Bright Blessings Sandra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auimfo Posted 13 May , 2009 Share Posted 13 May , 2009 I read that too Myrtle and had exactly the same thought. IMHO it appears to me that those who mocked Lambis in the beginning are the very same people who are now clambouring for the limelight at his expense. Cheers, Tim L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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