Obscure WW1 questions thread

[Jim Strawbridge]

Letters and cards written by the troops at the trenches all seem to be done with a pencil. They have a distinctive colour - lead pencil with a distinctive purplish tinge to the writing.To be honest, I haven't seen a period pencil letter that doesn't have that distinctive tinge. Were the men given WD issue pencils? What caused that tinge, and are similar pencils made today?

(Talk about an obscure question!)

The QM Christmas gift box issued in 1914 included a pencil(disguised as a bullet). I have used one of these and it has the same distinctive purplish tinge. I would guess that as almost everyone had one, and that they had limited use (ie not much other use but for writing home) that this is the reason for the consistancy that you mention.

[David B]

As kids we used to use indelible pencils same as you describe. You'd lick them and the colour came out

as purple, supposed to not fade on paper, and thats probably why they were issued to troops writing in difficult

conditions.

David

[geraint]

Indelible pencils! I've a vague recollection of them in primary school; though not of the purplish tinge! Thanks to you both.

[Guest]

After the war ended, where did all the rats go. Did they just die out, or was there a concerted effort to get rid of them?

Mike

[bruce]

They trained as estate agents.........

Bruce

[Guest]

Or politicians

Mike

[jansanderson]

Re Q2

The only reference my Grandfather left about his younger brother was that he had been gassed. I have found Arthur's records and discovered he spent 5 weeks with BEF FEb/Mar 1918 and was sent home with shell shock - a 60% disability. At his board in 1920 he is diagnosed with TB, he died Sept 1924. Sadly his sister had died in the May also of TB. The question is did he give it to her or vice versa? I'm trying to keep an open mind but .... There is no reference in his medical records to gassing but the Battalion record gives heavy gas attacks on the day he broke down. So gassing, TB - is there a mutually contradictory pr job going on. Did Grandad, talking to his daughter in law, prefer not to drag up the painful past - his brother taking 6 years to die horribly and gassing was the easy explanation? The note made no reference to the length of his illness. Was it statistically/financially/politically better for the authorities to attribute Arthur's death to a disease he may have caught since rather than during his service?

I studied history in the 80s and a book called What is history? was an almighty trudge ... the above was what the darned thing was all about! So much information and still so many questions

Jan

[wizard2250]

The QM Christmas gift box issued in 1914 included a pencil(disguised as a bullet). I have used one of these and it has the same distinctive purplish tinge. I would guess that as almost everyone had one, and that they had limited use (ie not much other use but for writing home) that this is the reason for the consistancy that you mention.

Pop wrote these postcards home in May 1915. He never left Stob's Field until August of '15 so the 'purple' pencils were available to new recruits. This was probably associated with your gifts. I have no idea where he got the Missanabe postcards!

thanks,

shawn

[wizard2250]

Front of cards

shawn

[CGM]

re post 150, a big advantage of indelible pencils (that you licked to use) was that they would write very well on damp paper. Obviously very useful in the trenches.

[Jim Strawbridge]

I have recently bought a BWM to a Maori serving in the NZEF. I accept that they were of a warrior background and, indeed a proud race respected by the New Zealand immigrants. Assuming my Maori was born late 19th century what sort of life would he likely have been brought up in? In a mud hut, village environment rather than a stone house? Dressed in native gear and face tattooed or similar to an immigrant with shirt and trousers? Or perhaps there isn't an answer as both could have applied depending on whether a rural or city dweller?

[David B]

CGM,

re post 160 of course licking the pencil left you with a purple tongue - good for sticking out to your sister -

generally worth a box on the ears too

David

[David B]

What is a light infantry unit e.g. Somerset Light Infantry - is it because of the arms they issued with or what

David

[geraint]

David

I've always thought that the infantry per se were the soldiers who stood in lines and squares and stood firm in the face of attack. These were the Line Infantry; of which most of the older and traditional regiments were composed. They were given numerical recognition according to date of formation. Eg Cheshires being 22nd Line Reg; RWF the 23rd; SWB the 24th.

The Light Infantry originally were mobile skirmishers who could be deployed rapidly without the encumberance of the regimental train which accompanied the Line regiments.

I may be wrong; and will probably be corrected and sent to the naughty step for presumption!

[David B]

Well, Geraint that looks like the best explanation I've seen - who knows some general may jump on both of us

David

[BMoorhouse]

Although by the time of WW1 the organisation and function of a light infantry battalion was the same as 'normal' infantrymen.

They retained some of the light infantry features such as bugles (used to communicate by light infantrymen in earlier wars in preference to drums because the sound carried further and because they were lighter to carry) and a faster pace of march. I have come across an account of a bugle being used to communicate the withdrawal of a raiding party in WW1 too - thereby fulfilling their original use. I've not seen any accounts of drums being used in WW1 so perhaps the Light Infantry still had the edge

[Guest]

Not sure what number this question is, let's call it # 10

How did the 7th London get it's nickname ' the shiny seventh '?

Was it just through a polished appearance, or was there more to it?

Cheers Mike

[squirrel]

Light Infantry were introduced in to the Army after the American war of Independence showed the need for units that could manouvre and deploy more quickly than the Line Infantry, hence the later formalised 140 paces to the minute - Geraint has it right in post #164.

They were used for piquets when a large force on the march and also as reaguards as they were taught to be the eyes and ears of a large force.

Rifle Regiments evolved similarly when a similar weapon to the American "Militia" long rifle was needed.

60th regiment of foot -later KRRC was formed in this way.

Light Infantry and Rifle Drill evolved from the need to move quickly.

Apart from the Light Infantry regiments as such, each line regiment had a Light Company - always on the left flank - and a Grenadier Company - always on the right flank, with the line Companies in between them.

Sometimes the Light and Genadier Companies from diffent regiments were brought together for specific operations.

They proved their worth during the Napleonic Wars, particularly in the Iberian Peninsular. Sir John Moore was the great trainer and leader of Light Infantry. There was a Light Division of Light Infantry and Rifles in Spain that did particularly well.

Bugles instead of drums were used as they are less cumbersome than a drum and lighter to carry as Geraint says.

Skipman, Shiny 7th -apart from their smart turnout they had a white metal 7 on a gilding metal grenade badge.

[Guest]

That's great squirrel. Thankyou.

Mike

[David B]

I'm not sure whether this is a GW question but when did the practice of wearing medal ribbon bars

come into existence ?

[Skipman]

The search engine is now so good on here anything can be found, yes?

Would it be correct to describe the Territorial Force as 'part-time soldiers' and as 'defenders of the British Isles' ?

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

On 20/09/2023 at 16:47, Skipman said:

The search engine is now so good on here anything can be found, yes?

Would it be correct to describe the Territorial Force as 'part-time soldiers' and as 'defenders of the British Isles' ?

Mike

As originally set up in 1908, yes and yes.

[Skipman]

20 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

As originally set up in 1908, yes and yes.

Thank you very much FROGSMILE and yes "As originally set up in 1908"  that's how I should have phrased it. 

I hope others find the thread useful for those niggling doubt questions that might not deserve a new thread.

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

On 11/08/2009 at 22:51, David B said:

I'm not sure whether this is a GW question but when did the practice of wearing medal ribbon bars

come into existence ?

Fairly late in Queen Victoria’s reign.  Some of the first medal ribbons displayed were those for the Crimean War and Indian Mutiny, and the earliest individual ribbon was the very belatedly issued Waterloo Medal, not instituted until most of its recipients were close to death from old age.

Initially (before being properly regulated) quite lengthy pieces of ribbon were displayed and the location and alignment on the uniforms inconsistent##, especially between Royal Navy and Army wearers.

The instruction for how ‘ribands’ (Sic) were to be worn was issued under Army Order (AO) number 341 of 1890.  This subsequently appeared in the iteration of ‘Dress Regulations for the Army’** promulgated and published on 1st April 1891 and signed off by the then Adjutant General, Sir Redvers Buller.  They were to be worn on undress and mess dress.

Miniatures were not to be worn with uniform and so [originally] intended for evening dress and other formal occasions in civilian clothes.

##not necessarily even in a straight line.

**unlike today these were intended for commissioned officers only.  Soldiers did not wear ‘dress’, but ‘clothing’ and so their equivalent was described as ‘clothing regulations’ and concentrated not on design, description, pattern, and wear, but matters of scale of issue, and thus cost to the taxpayer.  A very British attitude!

Afternote: I’ve only just realised that David B has not been seen online here since July 2021.

Edited 25 September , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[tankengine888]

Despite your answering a question from a now inactive member, it is still spins a rather good yarn on my end.

Excuse my possible ignorance, but when was the height of medal ribbons standardized?

Zidane.