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Remembered Today:

Cambrai, 1917: Myth of the First Great Tank Battle


PMHart

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I am going to recommend this to our US Branch WFA folk, 19 now, who are going to western front in April for 2 weeks. We spend time at Cambrai. This is the 4th one I have organized, 5th overall. This is really first rate, no weaknesses at all. The information on attempted use of cavalry and actual cavalry action is most interesting. Also it's not at all dry becasue it's well written with lots of personal accounts.

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Yes. Lots! I am happy to say!

Bryn

Thanks. Think you have another sale.

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the vitriol reserved for Christopher Baker-Carr (a 'founding father' of the MGC)

I haven't seen the book yet, but this sounds encouraging!

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Rats! Thanks, Paul, for spotting this. I'll try to ensure it gets changed in the paperback.

Thanks to all those who have posted kind comments here. As someone stated, I have mentioned this forum and the great help I have received from various members here. I am grateful. At present, I'm just getting back into things after the recent death of my dad so I'm 'just visiting' the forum off and on at the moment.

Please do tell me any errors you spot. Apparently "on p. 341 In the list of lost artillery 6-inch howitzers get mentioned twice - presumably one figure is for guns, or a different calibre of artillery" so that one I know. There will be others. The cover picture and the index are the responsibility of the publishers - hence 'Chauffer to Brigadier' and a Mark IV in the Ypres Salient.

Bryn

Bryn, I hesitate in questioing your veracity, but are you sure " Rats " is the word you used on reading this?

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Bryn, I hesitate in questioing your veracity, but are you sure " Rats " is the word you used on reading this?

Paul,

I can safely say that in all the many long years I have known young Bryn Hammond I have never heard a profanity pass his lips ! His moral virtue is also unquestioned - it is his commonsense and judgement in football and cricket matters that is dubious in the extreme!

Pete

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Paul,

I can safely say that in all the many long years I have known young Bryn Hammond I have never heard a profanity pass his lips ! His moral virtue is also unquestioned - it is his commonsense and judgement in football and cricket matters that is dubious in the extreme!

Pete

Pete, you make me ashamed, shame on me, assuming others have the same weakness as me!

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When I was digging around for material for my forthcoming Cambrai book, I came across the following observation, dated 28 Nov 17, by Generalleutnant von Moser, who commanded all the German divisions in and around Bourlon. In the light of Post 20 above concerning Byng's remarks, it makes interesting reading.

'One hundred Irish Guardsmen marched past my headquarters. These were all upright, well-built men, who reacted to the words of command of their NCO by marching to attention with such precision that it could only have been achieved through lengthy practice of drill. How come all the talk of German militarism ?! The contrast between these Guards and the scruffy prisoners belonging to the 62nd Division could hardly have been more striking.'

Jack

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When I was digging around for material for my forthcoming Cambrai book, I came across the following observation, dated 28 Nov 17, by Generalleutnant von Moser, who commanded all the German divisions in and around Bourlon. In the light of Post 20 above concerning Byng's remarks, it makes interesting reading.

'One hundred Irish Guardsmen marched past my headquarters. These were all upright, well-built men, who reacted to the words of command of their NCO by marching to attention with such precision that it could only have been achieved through lengthy practice of drill. How come all the talk of German militarism ?! The contrast between these Guards and the scruffy prisoners belonging to the 62nd Division could hardly have been more striking.'

Jack

Further to my last post and regarding this one 'Drat!'

Champing at the bit to get your book, Jack. Assuming it's all in the hands of the publishers now. Tell them to get their fingers out! Customer waiting!

Bryn

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  • 2 weeks later...

hi all, forgive me if i`m intruding on a particular book thread,.... i`v just finished reading "band of brigands" by Christy Cambell, and i found it a very good read. i am a 'novice' when it comes to ww1 tanks ,but i found this a really easy and informative book. has any of the more 'enlightened' pals had a read of it?.... cheers ..mike.

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Just got my copy today and look eagerly forward to reading this book. We do one present each on the two sides of my family - a kind of secret santa. This was my choice and my dear old nan got it for me.

I, too, am waiting for Jack Sheldon's work on the same battle.

Happy NY all.

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I am going through the first proofs right now, but it will be a few months before it appears. Patience, patience!

All the best for the coming year

Jack

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QUOTE (Staffsyeoman @ Dec 9 2008, 09:18 AM) the vitriol reserved for Christopher Baker-Carr (a 'founding father' of the MGC)

"I haven't seen the book yet, but this sounds encouraging!"

George,

Me too, I was going to wait until it was in the £3 section in Tesco ;) (only kidding Bryn - no fightin'), but now, especially with respect to the comments about Baker-Carr, obtaining it sooner and reading it seems a more likely proposition.

Aye

Tom McC

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I can safely say that in all the many long years I have known young Bryn Hammond I have never heard a profanity pass his lips !

Pete

Further to my last post and regarding this one 'Drat!'

Bryn

:o

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Which recent "Ardennes 1914" book did someone mention?

The Battle of the Frontiers: Ardennes 1914, Terene Zuber. Saw it available for 7.95 from N and M P in a recent catalogue, which is definitely a bargain price. The book is interesting but also, in my opinion, very hard going. Still, there is so little on the battle that it is worth it for that alone. You will just have to put up with the completely inappropriate cover illustration; this is acknowledged, but the blurb says there are no combat photographs 'during the period of' the Battle of the Frontiers. I must say that I do not find that a completely convincing statement.

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Hi chums,

Just a quick note to say that Bryn has now sworn at me contrary to my previous impressions of him as a latterday saint - something me being a blankety-blank troublemaking, blankety-blank ******* landing him right in the mud and with a blankety-blank ******* 12 hour return trip to blankety-blank Dundee! What can he mean?

Anyway on an entirely different topic I am pleased to confirm that Bryn will be speaking on the subject of his fab new book to the newly formed Tayside WFA Branch in 2009!

Cheers,

Pete

P.S. Relations with Bryn are at a new low after the FA Cup put our respective football Liverpudlian teams at each others' throats!

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Pete,

Good for him, I've put my broadsword and white cockade away, so it will be great to see Bryn up in Dundee giving the talk about his new book/Cambrai. I am pretty sure he will enjoy the crack.

I'm just going to highlight this fact to 'The Major' ;)

Aye

Tom McC

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Heh Young Tom

Spot on - after serious and indepth talking i've managed to persuade Bryn to come to Bonny Dundee end of November to address the Tayside WFA.

I'm absolutely delighted on behalf of the branch.

He has waived his £2000 fee saying that instead i should spent it on Group 4 Security to guarantee his safety.

Major Boab

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He has waived his £2000 fee saying that instead i should spent it on Group 4 Security to guarantee his safety.

Better still just deduct the cost of Bryn's security from Pete Hart's £4,000 fee for January's talk. (I do hope the taxman is reading this! :lol: )

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Boab:

"He has waived his £2000 fee saying that instead i should spent it on Group 4 Security to guarantee his safety."

Who are you trying to kid, that'll be the bar bill...and well you know it ;)

Aye

Tom McC

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Note to George

Do not take any of your U.S. cavalry pattern swords with you to this meeting otherwise we'll have to enforce the parliamentary practice of the combatants...sorry attendees...sitting at least two sword lengths apart! :o

regards

Ian

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Heh Young Tom

Spot on - after serious and indepth talking i've managed to persuade Bryn to come to Bonny Dundee end of November to address the Tayside WFA.

I'm absolutely delighted on behalf of the branch.

He has waived his £2000 fee saying that instead i should spent it on Group 4 Security to guarantee his safety.

Major Boab

Fee? I can charge fees? I'll never get this speaking lark. I'll be bust in a week ...

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Bryn

Of course you can charge WFA Tayside fees - it just you will have no chance of ever getting paid.

Your only hope of dosh is if we put the old Wembley goalposts we stole a good few years back on ebay.

Dont worry - you'll be well looked after in Tayside, the hospitality and friendliness is second to none. Worth every minute of a 12 hour return train journey !

Bob

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well it's just after midnight and I have just finished this book. In the little free time I have had since the end of Christmas, I haven't really wanted to put it down.

Make no mistake, this is a fantastic book and one which I will refer to again if need be. I may have said in other posts that Cambrai has been of particular interest to me for various projects of my own.

I think the many first-hand accounts really do it for me; although not exclusively. To have so many George Coppard's and Harry Patch's is very illuminating to say the least. I particularly enjoyed the first two chapters as well; the first, I think, illustrating the situation on the Western Front particularly well and the second, on armies and weapons really taught me a great deal about the science behind silent registration and counter-battery fire, including the increased reliance on topography and the spotting/ranging techniques employed. Some of this stuff was very, very interesting to me and really brought home the reality of the GW as an artillery war.

As a bit of a tank buff (not much of an expert yet) I also liked Hotblack's retort to Churchill's view on how the war on the WF could be won when Churchill points to Cambrai as the example to follow. Not with THOSE tanks!

A brilliant effort and one I would not hesitate to recommend, but it's time for ZZZZZ-hour.

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Cambrai isn't really my field of interest (aside from Wain, V.C., who went to my old school) - Julian Byng on the other hand has always interested me. Is there much on his supposed "blaming" of the men after the battle? I ask because Byng's biographer, Lt Col Jeffery Williams stated quite clearly that the Official History had been unfair to him and any of his comments taken out of context and referred to the standard of training the men had received.

Cheers,

Simon

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