PMHart Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 This new book is very welcome. Few battles have been as deliberately mythologized as the Battle of Cambrai as tank propagandists tried to 'prove' their point that tanks (and tanks alone) held the secret to success on the Western Front. This viewpoint is comprehensively demolished by Bryn Hammond who restores the new British artillery and infantry tactics to centre stage without feeling any need to denigrate the men of the Tank Corps. Throughout the book is fair to all sides and indeed he gives full attention to the equally dramatic German counter-attacks; again not getting carried away in his cogent analysis of the new stormtrooper tactics. Yet this is no dry 'textbook', it is an extraordinarily well written, smoothly weaving in personal experience accounts that let us see the consequences of the Generals' tactics at ground level amongst the men who actually fought the grim battles in the trenches, on the guns, in the tanks, or up in the skies above Cambrai. You get a powerful feeling of tension as the suspense builds up before the attacks; a real empathy for the men caught up in this awful blood-soaked battle. All in all a great addition to anyone's library... Yes I know he's my colleague at the IWM and people think he's my chum, but they're not taking into account our eternal rivalry:- he supports Everton (I'm Liverpool); he supports Nottingham County Cricket Club (I'm with the sublime Derbyshire CCC) and he is from Mansfield (I spent my teen years in Chesterfield) So in a sense we are natural enemies! All I can say is read it yourselves - it is great!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelcave Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 I must say that I was looking for a review of this book on the Forum some time ago, so I am pleased it has kicked off! I have had the book a couple of days and am well into it, despite having several others on the go. I find it very easy reading, in complete contrast to a certain recently published work on the Ardennes 1914 (which, I know, has considerable merit - it is just very hard going!). So far I find it well set out, well argued and with plenty of quotes from the IWM resources, particularly. It is a bit of a shame that there is no bibliography and there seems to be limited references to NA documents - but it promises to be the most readable and 'popular' authoritative account of the battle that I have read. It will be interesting to have Jack Sheldon's book (which I have seen in draft form) on the same battle when it is out. Thoroughly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 Hi Pete, Has this been released yet, last time I looked it wasn't available, was hoping to buy a copy from Bryn last week when he was due to give our WFA talk, unfortunately he had to cancel for personal reasons and I'll have to buy an ordinary unsigned copy now! Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 About two thirds of the way through the book and agree with the comments made. Will be going to look at Bourlon Wood etc next year so a very good resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMHart Posted 24 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2008 Hi Sean, Yes it's been out since September. Available from all good, most bad, and some very bad booksellers indeed. Of course you are aware that it will only be the rare unsigned copies of Bryn's books that have any value in years to come? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 Hi Sean, Yes it's been out since September. Available from all good, most bad, and some very bad booksellers indeed. Of course you are aware that it will only be the rare unsigned copies of Bryn's books that have any value in years to come? Pete Cheers Pete, Back to amazon for me now then, unsigned books are the only ones of value? Hmm and here's me with 4 signed books by a P Hart.... mind you he wouldn't let you buy an unsigned copy! Cheers I'll get you a beer when you up at the branch in march. Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 (I'm with the sublime Derbyshire CCC) Surely a typo here from Peter Hart (Somerset fan in the First Division) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMHart Posted 24 November , 2008 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2008 Derbyshire are hiding their light under a bushel in the Second Division. We will soon emerge like Assyrians from the metaphorical fold and pillage the entire First Division! Hmmmm! Wishful thinking for Beginners is another very good book by the way... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 Why are books listed as "available from all good booksellers"? Often they are not. And, perhaps bad booksellers would be encouraged if they were added to the publishers pr bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 Agree with you Nigel about the "Ardennes" , hard going just statistics in my view. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMG65 Posted 24 November , 2008 Share Posted 24 November , 2008 Good to see that the book challenges and demolishes the 'tanks are the answer to all problems' theory. I have always felt that too much expectation was unfairly put on the tanks and the Tank Corps soldiers themselves seemed to be the only ones who had a realistic idea of what the tanks could do. Does the book cover and discuss in detail Harpers actions? If not then maybe that could be Bryn's next book. As for you Peter - don't forget your roots! You're from County Durham, in football you should support Darlington (top of League 2, Champions League by 2013) and in cricket, Durham (Champions). Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 25 November , 2008 Share Posted 25 November , 2008 (edited) This new book is very welcome. Yet this is no dry 'textbook', it is an extraordinarily well written, Yes I know he's my colleague at the IWM and people think he's my chum, but they're not taking into account our eternal rivalry:- he supports Everton (I'm Liverpool); All I can say is read it yourselves - it is great!!! Pete, Thanks for the encouragement. I took this to Cambrai for a week at the beginning of the month, unfortunately newly delivered and unread and it remains (almost) in that pristine state: I persuaded myself that it was enough to have read some of Bryn's thesis and to have heard him speak at Birmingham last year. I was frightened to unpack it in our excellent Cambrai hotel where our splendid host's own book on tank warfare was on show. It will now come off the shelf. Congratulations to the editor and the publisher who have allowed it to go to press with a decent typeface and a line spacing that does not leave my aging eyes lost in a sea of text. Perhaps the price of this was the loss of a bibliography which can however be deduced by combing the footnotes. The chapter heading 'Shock and Awe' might lose its particular modern resonance before this book ceases to lose any of its validity. The insights into training with the 51st Highland Division look to be most interesting, especially as I am looking at the division's particular interpretation of SS 143 at the time. I would not have expected a true alumni of the University of Liverpool (I think my memory serves correctly) to have to name a second team (no comparative or ordinal value implied, honestly) having previously mentioned the words 'Everton' and 'rivalry' in the same sentence but I suppose those educated beyond the city might need the enlightenment. Dr Hammond's football affiliation is enough to persuade me to read on. Ian Riley Edited 25 November , 2008 by Ian Riley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 25 November , 2008 Share Posted 25 November , 2008 There is a very detailed discussion about General Harper and his role in the Battle of Cambrai here. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 25 November , 2008 Share Posted 25 November , 2008 I must get this, US Branch WFA 2009 trip, which I organized after 3 prior ones, goes there. Ardennes book is unreadable, I gave up half way through and it's too bad cause he did some great research. Maps are useless too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 25 November , 2008 Share Posted 25 November , 2008 There is a very detailed discussion about General Harper and his role in the Battle of Cambrai here. Robert Brilliant ... when I find two hours to read with maps in hand! Only managed the first page so far. Thanks. I notice that Bryn Hammond on gives credit to the Great War Forum in his acknowledgements Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 8 December , 2008 Share Posted 8 December , 2008 This is a terrific book amd much better mapped than most though, maddeningly, he puts side by side maps of the November 27 situation with the right page situation to the west of left page! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 8 December , 2008 Share Posted 8 December , 2008 Cheers Pete, Back to amazon for me now then, unsigned books are the only ones of value? Hmm and here's me with 4 signed books by a P Hart.... mind you he wouldn't let you buy an unsigned copy! Cheers I'll get you a beer when you up at the branch in march. Sean Pete signs as many copies as he can to ensure the unsigned ones he still has are worth more ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John(txic) Posted 8 December , 2008 Share Posted 8 December , 2008 I'm looking forward to Bryn's talk on this subject at my local WFA Branch next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 8 December , 2008 Share Posted 8 December , 2008 You will enjoy it, I heard it in Durham in October. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 9 December , 2008 Share Posted 9 December , 2008 A tremendous read; I was taken aback momentarily at the vitriol reserved for Christopher Baker-Carr (a 'founding father' of the MGC) but on balance Dr Hammond has a good case to make. I have an interest in Bourlon Wood also, not least for Byng's ill-judged in the official enquiry on Cambrai to blame the MGC - making some asinine remark that they needed a good dose of Guards NCOs to drill them, being undisciplined. Then I think of how many Emma Gees did not come back from the first day of the March Offensive when they stayed to the last allowing the infantry to get away. What were your thoughts on them then, General? I digress. An excellent book in a good year for the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 9 December , 2008 Share Posted 9 December , 2008 This is a terrific book amd much better mapped than most though, maddeningly, he puts side by side maps of the November 27 situation with the right page situation to the west of left page! Rats! Thanks, Paul, for spotting this. I'll try to ensure it gets changed in the paperback. Thanks to all those who have posted kind comments here. As someone stated, I have mentioned this forum and the great help I have received from various members here. I am grateful. At present, I'm just getting back into things after the recent death of my dad so I'm 'just visiting' the forum off and on at the moment. Please do tell me any errors you spot. Apparently "on p. 341 In the list of lost artillery 6-inch howitzers get mentioned twice - presumably one figure is for guns, or a different calibre of artillery" so that one I know. There will be others. The cover picture and the index are the responsibility of the publishers - hence 'Chauffer to Brigadier' and a Mark IV in the Ypres Salient. Bryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sunray Posted 9 December , 2008 Share Posted 9 December , 2008 Why are books listed as "available from all good booksellers"? Often they are not. And, perhaps bad booksellers would be encouraged if they were added to the publishers pr bull. Reverse psychology! If your book shop does not stock the book in question are you a "good bookseller" in the eyes of prospective customers? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Butler Posted 10 December , 2008 Share Posted 10 December , 2008 This is now on my Xmas list; this being of particular interest to me from the standpoint of Cambrai as a whole, and not just the tanks. As a footnote, I don't think the role of the tanks can be ignored purely because of the way they were employed - operational en masse as opposed to the previous deployment of ineffective 'driblets'. I'm presuming that silent registration must take some credit? The Gruppe system on the part of Boche as well as the storm troops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 11 December , 2008 Share Posted 11 December , 2008 I was having a browse in Waterstone's at the weekend: must add it to the ******mas list. Is there much on the actions of the Mhow Cavalry Brigade? Incidentally, if Mr Hart is still reading this: do Derbyshire CCC still wear those baggy caps, a la Aussies? It's just that they don't seem to appear at the Rose Bowl too often........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 11 December , 2008 Share Posted 11 December , 2008 Is there much on the actions of the Mhow Cavalry Brigade? Yes. Lots! I am happy to say! Bryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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