38th (Welsh) Div RFA (119th, 120th, 121st and 122nd Bdes )

[clive_hughes]

Huw,

they shouldn't have altered unless they were reattested as, say Territorials or something other than the "Service" type of contract usual for all new Army troops.

LST_164

[huwrevans]

Thanks for that. The reason for the question is that a number of MICs show new numbers for individuals, even though they are still serving with the RFA (I'll dig out a few when I get home). I presume this was when they returned from injury etc and were allocated to new brigades. So was wondering if the new army brigades were issued with new numbers.

Slightly outside this thread but it underlies all the reaserch I'm doing to some extent. I've traced the movements of the Div Arty (121 & 122) but if my grandfather went with D/119 then i may have to research them. His number remained W/177 throughout.

Regards Huw

[huwrevans]

Hi All,

I'm trying to plan my first visit in early July (short notice). Thinking of spending a few days on the Somme taking in Mametz for 7 July(family histrory with 38 Div Arty) followed by a few days up around Mesen/Kemmel - (great uncle killed at Kemmel) and 38 Div arty action around Armentieres.

I've got some good information and maps aboy the Div Art initial deployment near beaumont Hammel. Does anyone know of their locations for Mametz Wood July 1916?

I'm taking the long haired general along and my 6 year old daughter. My initial thought was to take our bikes along so as to cover more distance with a 6 year old - without driving everywhere - is this a feasible idea or am I asking for problems/barking mad?

Can anyone advise on suitable accommodation (not too pricey) - as long as we can leave the car there and have somewhere to store the bikes overnight.

The 38 Div Arty Database is Still growing - slowly.

Any help/advice welcome. Thanks in advance

All the best Huw

[huwrevans]

Some more information recently gleaned from a relative just before he passed away. It appears my grandfather was 'on the big guns' was his recollection of discussing it with him.

Since his Regt No didn't change from W/177 for the duration I'd assume he was in D/121 or D/122. Would that be a fair assumption?

He did recall my grandfather mentioning returning with supplies and finding them 'all killed', then fighting alongside Scotsmen. this seemed strange but may refer to the Battle Of the Lys during the German spring offensive of 1918 where the Div Arty were left behind around Armentiers whilst the Div moved south. Two howitzers were lost during the shelling of Armentires. Tried requesting the Bde diaries for the period but they have gone missing. Any ideas where to look next?

The only shell casings 'handed down', and now in my possession were an 18 pounder and some smaller calibre shells, I'd have expected something larger.

Thanks again to all old pals.

Huw

[clive_hughes]

Hello Huw,

some of us are still here! How did your Somme trip go?

Unless the terms of your relative's service "contract" had been altered - eg, if he'd become a Territorial, or changed Regiment altogether - then he would have kept that number whatever his RFA battery. But I'm not sure that knowing his number will in itself identify even the 38th Divn. RFA battery/batteries he served with.

Sorry to learn that some of the RFA Bde diaries can't be located. Have you tried what should be a parallel record of events as recorded in the War Diaries of the Division's Commandant RA, if they're to be had?

Lastly, the shellcases might not be ones fired by his battery but picked up elsewhere. The 18-pounder would fit most of the guns the 38th Divn used, excepting the 4.5" Howitzers. Anything bigger than those and we're talking the really big guns of the RGA. For the smaller calibre stuff, you could try posting pictures (& measurements) on a separate thread re. armaments and our shell experts will doubtless give you their opinion!

Cheers,

LST_164

[Mick.Eat]

Huw,

I came across your thread while researching my father's WW1 service. I live in Australia and have very limited access to written records. Your research and the replies of LST_164 have been helpful in providing me with some context.

My father was 7598 Gnr CE Eaton. He enlisted in Sep 1914 and was originally sent to France with the BEF, 76 Bde RFA. He was posted in to the 38th DAC, from V Battery Guards, after a period in hospital in November 1916. He stayed with 38 DAC until April 1918 when he was posted to B Battery 122 Bde. In October 1918, while with 122 Bde, he was promoted to Bdr vice W/1573 Bdr Potter. My father's record notes that Bdr Potter embarked for the UK in Dec 1918 and there is an annotation on the entry that looks like "miner". Were miners given some priority in returning to the UK or could the annotation refer to something else?

Regards,

MickE

[clive_hughes]

Hello MickE,

Firstly, as part of the background to 76th Bde. RFA there is this previous post which may be of interest:

 

Secondly, men were indeed grouped by their trade (or the sort of job they could expect to return to) on demobilization, and occupations such as Coal Miners were considered amongst the more necessary if the country was to get back on its' feet again. The higher a demob group number, the faster they were processed. I have seen "Miner" emphasised on a soldier's demob papers even though it's clear that he was in reality a limestone quarryman!

LST_164

[Mick.Eat]

Thanks LST_164. That probably explains why my father didn't leave France until March 1919 after re-enlisting.

Regards,

Mick E

[Neil 65]

Hi all. Sorry to join this conversation two years late but I've only just discovered this site yesterday ! This may not be the forum to discuss this in & I will move it if not. I've been researching my G-Grandfather, William John Morgan, who enlisted in the RFA as a driver on 11/01/1915 in Bargoed. His regimental number is 671 ( without the prefix of "W" ) I have found his MIC ( which due to the writing of the number "7" looks like 691 ) and his subsequent transfer the the Labour Corps ( regimental number 407452 ) after injury in I believe 1917. I think it is 1917 anyway as his original discharge papers ,which I have, show that he was "awarded" 3 blue chevrons. I also have his medals, including his 1914/15 Star, which are stamped with his RFA number not his Labour Corps number. His MIC shows that he arrived in France on 24/12/1915, 2 days before his 38th birthday. I cannot find any further info on him as I presume his records have been destroyed. Could anyone please tell me how I trace what battallion he was assigned to ? Or how I go about finding any further info on him ? I have already been in touch with the LC but their records are incomplete. Just out of interest, I have also traced the record of a George Morgan ( no relation ), who also enlisted at Bargoed in Jan 1915, also as a driver in the RFA. He was issued the number of 672, one digit up from William John Morgan, again with no "W" prefix. I would be very grateful if anyone could shed any further info on him for me and incidentally, if any of these documents would be of use to you in your research I would be happy to supply a copy. Thanks, Neil.

[huwrevans]

Hi Neil,

away with work at the moment - will have a look at some MIC's I've got at home to see if there's one with a w prefix. Arrival date in France ties in with 38 Div arty - but I dare say a lot more Bdes were arriving at the same time. The medal rolls in Kew may well give more information - it's worth a try - ask in the relevant look up section on the forum.

I think the cheverons were 'wound stripes' though others on the forum will know more.

Regards Huw

[Neil 65]

Hi Huw,

Thanks for the reply. I think the brigade was somewhere between the 119th & 122nd as William's MIC states date of entry in France as 24/12/15.

As stated, William had no "W" prefix on his MIC despite enlisting at Bargoed, but he enlisted in Jan 1915, and possibly the "W" came in a little later.

I have his original discharge papers from Jan 1919 ( along with his medals, stamped RFA ) as my nan, his daughter, kept all the family records that they possessed until her death. If you would like a copy to further your research I would be more than happy to supply.

Thanking you for any further "digging" you do on my behalf though, as all info is gratefully received.

All the best,

Neil.

[huwrevans]

New appeal for a second Welsh memorial, this time for Passchendaele.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12958598

[geraint]

That's a very interesting and very heartening development. The Hedd Wyn story gives itself as a symbolic representation of all the other young men who died there. It does raise a very personal moral issue regarding Hedd Wyn though. He was a conscript, and though not a conscientious objector; he was most certainly not a military person. His family, deliberately chose not to depict him as a soldier on the Trawsfynydd statue to him, rather portrayed him as a civilian shepherd striding over his homeland. So does this bronze dragon represent Hedd Wyn, or all the Welsh lads from the 38th, and it's sitting at Hedd Wyn's spot just a coincidence?

[philipdavies48]

New appeal for a second Welsh memorial, this time for Passchendaele.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...-wales-12958598

There is a memorial to the 38th Welsh Div on the blockhouse they captured on Pilkem Ridge - Goumier Farm. There is also a seat at Dantzig Alley cemetry (on the somme) which commemorates Hedd Wyn. Get in touch with South Wales branch of WFA for some advice re setting up memorial. Swaleswfa.com

[richards13]

I am lucky to have 1915 Stars to the following W prefix men:

W-4296 John J Mathews RFA

W-3709 Gnr AH Chamberlain RFA - from Minny Street, Cathays, Cardiff

W-2155 Dvr B Lee RFA

W-345 Gnr J Murphy RFA - from Eldon Rd Canton Cardiff

W-5957 Dvr H Rawson RFA

W-3213 Ernest Way RFA - from Caerphilly

W-1135 Dvr Albert Vine RFA - from Kenfig Hill

Thank you for starting this interesting thread.

Edited 10 February , 2015 by richards13

[Guest SergeantDavid]

Hello Everyone,

I've been researching my great uncle who enlisted at Bargoed, I know his number was W/205 and he was in 119Bde RFA, not sure if he was part of the 38th.

He was wounded on 12th July 1916 at the Somme - don't know if this was at Mametz Wood and would like to find out. He died of his wounds the following day, aged 18, and is buried at Mericourt l'abbe cemetry which I visited a few years ago and intend to do so again in July 2016.

I am also trying to find his original medals but have no idea if these have been lost forever as no-one in the family has any knowledge of them. They may have passed to one of his brothers following his father's death.

At the time of his death the family were living in Vera Street, Gilfach.

If anyone has any information that would help I would be very grateful.

Thanks

David

[Neil 65]

Hi David.
I have just seen your post on the Invasionzone website requesting info about your family member who enlisted at Bargoed.
I guess you have seen the website listing the soldiers at Bargoed who died serving.
You did not mention his name but he must be Dvr H. Edmunds I think.
Have a look here if you haven't already:

http://historypoints.org/index.php?page=bargoed-and-gilfach-war-memorial#fww

By the way mate, the street he is from in Gilfach is Vere Street, not Vera.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Neil.

[Waggoner]

Just came across this thread. Very interesting material! I am attempting something similar for the ASC men with "W" prefixes.

All the best,

Gary

[Scalyback]

Hi David.

I have just seen your post on the Invasionzone website requesting info about your family member who enlisted at Bargoed.

I guess you have seen the website listing the soldiers at Bargoed who died serving.

You did not mention his name but he must be Dvr H. Edmunds I think.

Have a look here if you haven't already:

http://historypoints.org/index.php?page=bargoed-and-gilfach-war-memorial#fww

By the way mate, the street he is from in Gilfach is Vere Street, not Vera.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Neil.

Good website, still not managed to attend Gelliger Society!

[Neil 65]

Hi Scalyback,

I have been along to a couple of meetings of the Gelligaer Historical Society, and they are very interesting and knowledgeable people.

I was lucky enough to have been invited to attend the meeting where they launched the Great War edition of their publications last year. It was excellent and very moving.

Here is a list of their publications in case you haven't seen them:

http://www.gelligaerhistoricalsociety.co.uk/index.php/ghs-publications

All the best,

Neil.

[Jerry B]

I am trying to research W/1909 BQMS Wilfred Egwin Davis RFA who post great war lived at Dorset rd Ealing W5.  He was commissioned a 2nd Lt, 17/3/19 with the RGA.  He went to F & F December 23rd 1915.  

 

I am trying to see if it is possible to find out which battery of the 38th Welsh Division artillery he served with.

[Felderland05]

My wife's great uncle is Lt. Morgan Rhys Howell Harris attached to B/122nd Brigade R.F.A.  He received an MC and bar (London Gazette 26/9/17 and 09/01/18.  Happily he survived the war.  I have details of his citations if you want them.  I would love to know when he joined the battery.

 

David

[huwrevans]

Thanks David,  Please feel free to post his citation here

 

I'm afraid work and daily life is prohibiting me from devoting the time it deserves to pick up on this work properly - perhaps in the future.......

 

One good thing I noticed recently is a resurgence in the Dragon on St Davids background (the 38th Flash/emblem) and proudly have one flying in the front garden, in remembrance of the men of the 38th.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welsh-Red-Dragon-Black-Flag-5-x-3-FT-100-Polyester-With-Eyelets-Wales-/361147573956?hash=item541612a6c4:g:79UAAOSwrklVVcFr

[Chris Bent]

Good morning. I am trying to locate the war history of James Knowles Painter (4607) who was in the 122nd brigade of the Royal Field Artillery. I understand that this brigade was part of the 38th Division. Did you manage to complete your database? if so, do you have James in it? I know he was wounded on 27.5.1918. This was the first day of the Third Battle of Ancre. However, I can not find any record of the 122nd being at that location. He could of course have transferred to another brigade? Any help would be much appreciated. Regards. Chris.

[Manipled Mutineer]

Huw,  I don't know if it will be of interest but I have what purports to be a photograph of W/4643 Dvr Thomas Davies along with his British War Medal. I don't know if you've got to him on your database yet, and I at present have no more information about him than appears on his MIC, but you are more than welcome to a copy of what I do uncover, and of his photograph, if that would be of interest? Anthony