38th (Welsh) Div RFA (119th, 120th, 121st and 122nd Bdes )

[Chris Bent]

Hi. You have sent this message to my address not Huw's. 

[Guest]

I wonder whether anyone might help me? My father’s uncle served as a gunner in ‘D’Battery,122nd Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery.  He was awarded the Military medal in Belgium as a result of an act of bravery on 8th May 1918 ... but I can’t find out what it was!  His name was Allen Royle W/1488 and died on 26th August 1918 near Pozieres. I got some information from Stockport1914-1918.co.uk ( he was from Cheshire not Wales). 

[Guest]

Hello, have just come across this website and wondered if you are still researching Welsh soldiers whose service numbers started with W.  If so my grandfather's service number was W/2221.  he was Sgt Rhys Philip Watkins, born Breconshire 1876, died Llanwrst Denbighshire 1928,  He was in the RFA 38th Divisional Ammunition Column, 122nd Brigade B Battery.  Unfortunately I have no photos of him,  PatriciaW

[michaela]

I have just recently discovered with the help of some kind and knowledgeable people on here, that my great uncle, John James Rigby was involved at some point with the 38th (Welsh) Division. His service number was W/3143. He was from Burnley and survived the war. Have you come across many more from Burnley. Unfortunately I don't know how long he was with the 38th, as in the absent voters list he was noted as being in the 92 Battery, 17 Brigade. If you have come across him whilst doing your research, I would love to hear what you have. Many thanks

[David Porter]

5 minutes ago, michaela said:

Have you come across many more from Burnley

 

W/3200 Alfred Vallance enlisted in Burnley on April 14, 1915 and joined B/119 Bde two days later. So a search through W/3100 to W/3300 may reveal more Burnley men.

[GMB]

Since this topic seems to be revisited, I thought it would be good to say that I am a collector of medals to the 38th Welsh, and am lucky to have a number of medals (circa 30 odd) which includes, single, pairs & trio's to men from the 38th.

 

What started out as an 'easier' hobby is starting to become tricky, due to the lack of 'W' prefix on the market at the present time.

 

 

[FitzyJ]

Hello,

 

I'm not sure if this helps or hinders, but I know of at least one person who was in 38 Div RFA who didn't have the W/ prefix:

John Brown, "B" Battery, 120 Brigade, Reg No: 806685

He was an Irishman who happened to be working in Wales at the time he enrolled.

Later moved to RGA after receiving GSW to the head, given new number 158402.

 

 

Edited 2 December , 2020 by FitzyJ

[Derek Tickner]

On 10/12/2008 at 22:22, clive_hughes said:

Hello again Huw,

the 38th Welsh Div artillery's "family tree" and changes of title etc seem very complex to me, but here goes...

According to the official Order of Battle of Divisions listing for the 38th Divn, the first battery formed (indeed the only one in 1914 they say) was the eventual A/120 Bde out of the initial mob of recruits at Cardiff. The other 3 btys weren't formed until Jan 1915 at Porthcawl. At Pwllheli fom February, they were ordered to double each battery (virtually forming a "Second Line" like the TF). In March/April each bty was divided again, resulting in 16 batteries in four RFA brigades under the Welsh Divn.

The numbers for three Brigades (119-120-121) were reallocated (together, it says, with the personnel) from the broken-up 30th Divn. Likewise 122 Bde was with its personnel reallocated from the broken-up 31st Divn. (both divns. broken up on 10 April). This doesn't at first glance leave much room for the Welsh recruits!

NEVERTHELESS, it says, each Brigade was still "descended" from an original battery:

120 Bde from No. 1 (Cardiff) Bty

119 Bde from No.2

122 (Howitzer) Bde from No. 3

121 Bde from No. 4

Note: the artillery of the 1st to 4th London Bdes RFA (?TF) were detached from the 36th (Ulster) Divn. by 12 December 1915 to serve with the 38th Div until 3 January 1916, when they left & afterwards joined 56th (1st London) Divn. (TF).

The Order of Battle chart for August 1915 shows each Bde with four batteries (ABCD), but 122 is the Howitzer Bde and no other (H.) batteries shown. Up to the time they embarked for France in December, no change to this situation but that Summer they started to play musical chairs as follows:

24 May 1916:

A/119 became A/122

D/119 became A/119

A(H.)/122 became D(H.)/119

B/120 became B/122

D/120 became B/120

B(H.)/122 became D(H.)/120

C/121 became C/122

D/121 became C/121

D(H.)/122 became D(H.)/121

As to 122 (H.) Bde, between 22 and 24 May 1916 three of its howitzer btys (ABC) were redistributed respectively (see above) as D(H.)/119, D(H.)/120, D(H.)/121; while C(H.)/122 became D(H.)/122.

The remaining btys - A/119, B/120, C/121 joined with C(H.)/122 as above to form the new 122 Bde. It is at this point that the Howitzer Brigade as such breaks up, and is in effect replaced by a How. battery in each brigade instead. Follow me so far??!

On 28-29 August 1916 they made it really complicated:

119 Bde:

C/119 split between A & B (which therefore became 6-gun btys)

D(H.)/120 joins and becomes C(H.)/119

On 14 January 1917, 119 became an Army Field Artillery Bde and so left the 38 Divn. At this point C(H.) Bty split between D(H.)/121 and D(H.)/122 ( become 6-howitzer btys). Also B/179 Bde joins from 39th Divn and is retitled C/119. On 18 January 1917 "L" Section of D(H.)/179 joins and makes D(H.)/119 up to 6 howrs. Also No. 3 Section 38th DAC becomes 119 Bde Ammo. Column.

120 Bde:

28-29 Aug 1916 - 120 Bde broken up as follows - B/120 split as above between A/120 and B/122. A/120 becomes A/121. C/120 joins 122 Bde and is made up to 6 guns with 1 section of C/122, becoming C/122. D(H.)/120 becomes C(H.)/119.

121 Bde:

29 Aug 1916 - A/121 split as above between B & C. A/120 joins and becomes A/121. On 14 January 1917 one section of C(H.)/119 joins making up D(H.)/121 to 6 howrs.

122 Bde:

26-29 Aug 1916 - C/122 split as above between A/122 and C/120. One section B/120 joins and makes up B/122. C/120 joins and made up by 1 section of C/122. C/120 then becomes C/122. On 14 January 1917 1 section of C(H.)/119 joined and made up D(H.)/122 to 6 howrs.

Between 15-21 May 1916 the Brigade Ammo Columns were disbanded and the 38th Divn Ammo Column reorganised.

So after January 1917 the 38 Divn. RFA consists of just 121 Bde (ABC and D(H.) Btys); and 122 Bde (ABC and D(H.) Btys), and remains like this for the duration of the War according to this source.

I knew there was a good reason why I didn't specialise in the RFA...

LST_164

Hi Huw,im amazed at your knowledge,im chasing my tail about my grandads early days in WW1 so im after after a bit of help.Hes 297 (290580) Gunner William Tickner (no 'W' in front of service number),he enlisted in Caerphilly on the 10th April 1915 aged 17,i have his medal card and Discharge papers that says he was at first in the RFA (no number)but was transferred to the 141st HB RGA till he was injured out of the war on 14th July 1918.

Im wanting to know what Battery he would have likely joined on enlisting?,and where they possibly did their Basic/Artillery training?m confused as i read and been informed of him being in the 38th Welsh or the 119th......

I have the 141st diaries off Lt Attwater,and the 86th Brigade diaries of his campaigns in France,im trying,albeit slowly and with difficulty,trying to piece together his early military career........after this is his WW2...thats another headache

[Keith_history_buff]

There is a surviving service record for W/4842 Charles Phillips. He joined at Portmadoc (as was) on 26 April 1915. He was allocated a service number, posted to D Battery, 120 Brigade RFA and discharged on 11 June 1915.

Similarly, for W/4848 Antony Gillard. He joined at Criccieth on 23 April 1915. He was allocated a service number, posted to A Battery, 122 Brigade RFA and discharged on 25 April 1915. 

John Vaughan was born in 1875 at St Marys, Brecon. He enlisted in the South Wales Borderers on 8 Feb 1894, and is understood to have served 12 years. He reenlisted on 16 November 1914, most likely in the South Wales Borderers, but appears to have been posted to the RFA in late April 1915, where he acquired a service number of W/4841. He disembarked in France & Flanders on 25 December 1915. He was discharged on 16 January 1919, surplus to military requirements as per Army Order 20 of 1919. He was issued Silver War Badge B92943, medal roll reference WO 329/2974 folio RA/2892. His service numbers from 1894 and 1915 appear on the WFA-salvaged pension cards.