cahoehler Posted 1 August , 2008 Share Posted 1 August , 2008 . . . . over 20 years ago. squirrel That was of course in the time of fuehrer Thatcher. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 1 August , 2008 Share Posted 1 August , 2008 Are you suggesting that she had in some way control over the speed of response of the King's Troop RHA to enquiries from the general public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 1 August , 2008 Share Posted 1 August , 2008 . . . some way control over the speed of response . . . squirrel On my command Breath IN Breath OUT Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 1 August , 2008 Share Posted 1 August , 2008 Are you suggesting that she had in some way control over the speed of response of the King's Troop RHA to enquiries from the general public? She certainly gingered up my branch of the Civil Service .... phones answered within three rings, letters replied to same day, abolition of Pending Trays, clocks synchronised. Yes indeedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 1 August , 2008 Share Posted 1 August , 2008 Grumpy You must have been put through to the adjutant in 1954 if you remember his name it was Maj JKI Douglas-Whithers MC RHA. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 2 August , 2008 Share Posted 2 August , 2008 Has anyone managed to pin down the date when the stripe first appeared on Kings Tp guns? Or on 13 prs generally. On the latter as I previously posted, it wasn't there in 1935 on the gun carriage used for King George VI funeral. This invites another question, when did 13 pr leave field service? Between the wars RHA used both 13 and 18 prs, and 13 pr was one of the 3 (with 18 pr, 4.5 in) replaced by 25 pr. I guess this puts it around 1938 on the assumption that 13 pr would have been the highest priority for replacement. Looking at the RA history, in 1938 there were 3 RHA bdes, two mechanised, the non-mech (I, L, N Btys) was in Newport, HAC was the only RHA TA. There were 5 independent regular btys (C, E, F, G, K) but nothing on where they were or whether or not they were mechanised. It seems unlikely that a 13 pr bty would be mechanised. I'm still of the view that the white stripe is relatively recent (decades) and peculiar to Kings Tp. One thought is that it may be to commemorate something or someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Frank Posted 3 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2008 I'm still of the view that the white stripe is relatively recent (decades) and peculiar to Kings Tp..................... That does not explain how it appears on the Fire Power gun, the Nevy gun and some AS90s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 3 August , 2008 Share Posted 3 August , 2008 The Gun which was used for King George VI funeral was in fact an 18 Pdr which is in the Firepower Museum and it had its shield removed so that the coffin platform could be fitted. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 4 August , 2008 Share Posted 4 August , 2008 My earlier post was correct, finger trouble on the last, George V in 1935, 13 pr no stripe. If AS90 has stripe on the front of the turret (and when I looked at the one in Woolwich less than 2 yrs ago I don't recall it) it has nothing to do with the sight because AS90 has an electronic laying system that has no need of external reference points such as a director. Looking at operational pics of AS90, there's so much clag on the front of the turret I'm not sure where you'd paint a white stripe down the front! As was previously suggested a white strip may have been painted on one or both sides of the turret flush up against the 'box' where the barrel enters the turret to provide a visual base for small pieces of black masking tape for use in peacetime range safety (with a mark on the 'box' aligned witht the axis of the bore). Of course you could also use a pale tape against the normal black or green cam paint. Frankly, great care should be taken with using a museum piece as an authoritative reference. It's probably been repainted umpteen times, gate guns are even worse, tarted up to look flash. To date no one has offered a contemporaneous picture of a WW1 era gun (or WW2 come to that) with a white line painted on the shield. IWM also holds 2 13 prs (all the rest in UK (12) are under RA control). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Frank Posted 5 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2008 ......................IWM also holds 2 13 prs (all the rest in UK (12) are under RA control). I am told the one at IWM has the white line, am I correct in assuming that this is the Nevy gun? I will be there on 10 September to check it out. Anyone up for a cup of coffee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 I am told the one at IWM has the white line, am I correct in assuming that this is the Nevy gun? I will be there on 10 September to check it out. Anyone up for a cup of coffee? Actually it's Néry, a small village in the Automne Valley, action on 1 Sep 1914, L Bty with 1st Cav Bde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 5 August , 2008 Share Posted 5 August , 2008 I am told the one at IWM has the white line, am I correct in assuming that this is the Nevy gun? I will be there on 10 September to check it out. Anyone up for a cup of coffee? Actually it's Néry, a small village in the Automne Valley, action on 1 Sep 1914, L Bty with 1st Cav Bde. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Frank Posted 5 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 August , 2008 Thanks nigelfe, here is a pic of the gun and yes, it does indeed have the white line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 6 August , 2008 Share Posted 6 August , 2008 So when did this habit start? Where are the contemporaneous pictures? The IWM pic highlights another technical point, the slope of the shield means that the white line is only vertical if the director is squarely in front of the gun, and it can't be squarely in front of all 4 guns in a battery. If the top of the line aligns with where the sight pokes over the shield, why does the white line have to be the full height of the shield? Again this story doesn't stack up, even allowing for woeful gunnery in RHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted 6 August , 2008 Share Posted 6 August , 2008 Here is a link to the nearest thing I have seen to a white line on a field Gun, seems to be the same idea though. 75mm Norwegian m/01, made in Germany. 75mm Feltkan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 7 August , 2008 Share Posted 7 August , 2008 Nigelfe I take exception to your comments about the RHA. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 8 August , 2008 Share Posted 8 August , 2008 Attached is a picture of one of the 13 pndrs of the Kings Troop. On the front plate are 4 vertical pieces of wood that have been painted, 3 green and one white. I have a 13 pndr which we will begin restoring shortly, could anyone tell me why the one piece is white? Frank From Trawin's very excellent Early British Quick Firing Artillery (Field and Horse) The shield was of Boynton steel, strengthened with ash slats , made in two portions. . . Fitted to the shield top edge were two sighting blades. These indicated, approximately. the field covered by the traversing gear to a man standing to the traversing handspike, equal to eight degrees. The original sights were rocking bar with clinometer. Here is a plan view of the QF 13 pdr Mk I (page 217) which is virually identical to the QF 18 pdr Mk I on page 219. But why only one is white . . . Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 11 August , 2008 Share Posted 11 August , 2008 . . . two sighting blades. . . These sighting blades are shown clearly in relation to the terminations of the strengthening slats on the rear elevation of the shield on page 249 of Early British Quick Firing Artillery (Field and Horse). Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 11 August , 2008 Share Posted 11 August , 2008 At last a full frontal view of the shield of the Nery gun at the IWM. Please note that only ONE sighting blades seems still extant although the position in relation to the strengthening slat is different. And what about THAT shade of green . . . From an archive page of THE CASTLE ARGGHHH! at http://thedonovan.com/archives/cat_artillery.html from whence also came those images of the gun-howitzers with the bright red nuts. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Frank Posted 11 August , 2008 Author Share Posted 11 August , 2008 At last a full frontal view of the shield of the Nery gun at the IWM. Please note that only ONE sighting blades seems still extant although the position in relation to the strengthening slat is different. And what about THAT shade of green . . . From an archive page of THE CASTLE ARGGHHH! at http://thedonovan.com/archives/cat_artillery.html from whence also came those images of the gun-howitzers with the bright red nuts. Carl What happened to Deep Bronze Green? Also, I notice that these guns, RHA and Nery gun, do not have drop plates below the front shield like the THA gun. I wonder when this came about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 13 August , 2008 Share Posted 13 August , 2008 These sighting blades are shown clearly in relation to the terminations of the strengthening slats on the rear elevation of the shield on page 249 of Early British Quick Firing Artillery (Field and Horse). Carl Unfortunately this story doesn't seem to stand-up (old principle 'Gunners double check'). The view from behind the gun suggests the 'blades' weren't equidistant either side of the barrel, the left is closer. The plan view confirms this. According to Kosar's 'Light Field Artillery' the top traverse on a 13-pr was 8 degrees left and right, and equal left and right traverse was usual on towed guns (unequal doesn't seem to have appeared until the casemate SPs in WW2). The unequal balance would only make sense if the No 1 stood to the right of the handspike. This doesn't make sense, a. because most people are right-handed, b. becaise it put him further away from the No 3 (layer) who he needed to supervise including checking his lay and c. because he would probaly want ot use both hands. Next theory please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 13 August , 2008 Share Posted 13 August , 2008 . . . drop plates below the front shield like the THA gun. An image of a QF 18-pounder Mark I scanned from Hogg's Allied Artillery of World War One. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 13 August , 2008 Share Posted 13 August , 2008 . . . the 'blades' weren't equidistant either side of the barrel, the left is closer. Nigel What would have been the purpose of the 'blades' and if they provided some form of very rough open sight would they have then been adjustable? And even Kilroy would have felt exposed to those pesky snipers. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjustice Posted 13 August , 2008 Share Posted 13 August , 2008 As King's Troop have failed to reply, is it safe to assume they have no idea why they paint their guns the way they do? Kind Regards, SMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahoehler Posted 13 August , 2008 Share Posted 13 August , 2008 Guys I started the following thread to get some additional thoughts on why the Nery gun would have needed that white stripe. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...03752&st=16 Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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