War Gratuities

[ss002d6252]

As part of the ongoing attempt to reconcile the soldiers effects records with the war gratuities paid I have come across the following House of Commons discussion from Nov 1918. Clear the rates don't always match what was paid (e.g the £3 rate) but hopefully we can make some headway on this as a useful tool in dating enlistment.

Craig

Part 2

Craig

Part 3

Craig

Part 4

Craig

[johnboy]

Should it be taken that a private got a minimum £5?

[clk]

Hi Craig,

Must say, hat off to you!!

Presumably this is the proposed scheme, that was may be subject to minor amendments, that was actually passed.

Will probably take me ages to digest, but absolutely invaluable.

Regards

Chris

[johnboy]

For every one entry that looks correct there will be 4 that do not fit the scale table!!

[ss002d6252]

This is the earliest mention (with figures) I could find but I haven't yet directly compared it to the later figures in the link from the other thread. I suspect they're at least very similar.

Craig

Should it be taken that a private got a minimum £5?

In theory yes, in practice many who died early on only got £3 for some unknown reason.

[ss002d6252]

HC Deb 17 February 1942 vol 377 cc1630-2 1630

§ 25. Mr. Bellenger

asked the Secretary of State for War what were the rates of gratuity granted to officers and other ranks at the termination of the Great War, 1914–18?

§ Captain Margesson

As the answer is rather long and contains a number of figures, I will, with my hon. Friend's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

§ Following is the answer:

§ 1. Regular Officers.

§ Gratuities were awarded on the basis of a minimum for each rank for the first year of service with monthly increments for additional service. The total service which could reckon for gratuity was limited for five years.

§ The minimum rates were as follow:

£

2nd Lieutenant

35

Lieutenant

40

Captain

45

Major

60

Lieutenant-Colonel

75

Colonel

100

Brigadier-General

140

Major-General

200

Lieutenant-General

370

General

540

Field-Marshal

720

1631

§ The monthly increments were:—

• £1 for officers up to Lieutenant-Colonel.
• £2 for Colonel or Brigadier-General.
• £3 for Major-General and above.

§ If with no service overseas the monthly increments were half the above figures.

§ 2. Retired officers, Supplementary Reserve and Territorial Force, and other non-regular Officers.

1. (a) Officers who had retired with retired pay or gratuity, 31 days' pay for every year of service or any part of a year.
2. (b) Other officers, 124 days' pay for the first year or part of a year and 62 days' pay for each subsequent year or part of a year.

§ 3. The rank for gratuity purposes in paragraphs 1 and 2 above was that held on 3rd August, 1919 (or 11th November, 1918, if more advantageous) with the concession that paid acting rank could be taken if:

1. (i) held for 6 months in all and not relinquished on account of misconduct, etc., or
2. (ii) the acting rank was relinquished owing to wounds, or
3. (iii) the officer became non-effective owing to wounds, etc., incurred while holding the acting rank.

§ 4. The main war gratuity for soldiers of all ranks was as follows:

1. (a)Personnel eligible.—Soldiers with war service overseas, or with more than 6 months' service at home.
2. (b) Amount.—(i) A minimum payment varying with rank from £5 for a private, up to £15 for a warrant officer class I (approximately equivalent to 67 days' pay).
   1. (ii) additional payments, if the soldier had more than 12 months' service, of 10s. 0d. or 5s. 0d. for each month or part of a month's war service beyond the first 12 months according to whether he had served overseas or not. The maximum number of these monthly additions was 48, equivalent to a gratuity of 5 years' war service.
   2. (iii) lower rates were prescribed for boys (£2 minimum and additional payments at the rate of 2s. 6d. unless the boy served overseas, when the full 10s. 0d. was given).

1632

1. (c) Service reckonable—war service between 4th August, 1914, and 3rd August, 1919; rank for the purposes of the minimum payment was the substantive, temporary, or (paid) acting rank held at termination of service (or on 11th November, 1918, if higher).
2. (d) The ordinary discharge gratuity under the Pay Warrant of £1 for each year or part of a year was merged in the war gratuity except for regular soldiers who were eligible for both.

Craig

[ss002d6252]

I think I've now found the answer to the question re the £3.00 payment.

Cornishman 16 August 1917

Craig

[johnboy]

Thanks Craig.

It still does not ring right.

Soldiers who were killed in Sept 1915 were still paid £3.

The above seems to say the £5 would be back dated. It was not on some of the records I have seen.

[ss002d6252]

Thanks Craig.

It still does not ring right.

Soldiers who were killed in Sept 1915 were still paid £3.

The above seems to say the £5 would be back dated. It was not on some of the records I have seen.

The bottom line of the article appears to be the answer - the £5 was paid only for deaths from 01 July 1916 onwards, prior to that the £3 applies. We need a couple of men around that date to check it holds true but the monies were never backdated to deaths before that date from what I can see.

Crig

[johnboy]

I have a relative killed 26/9/16 , not paid the £5.

[johnboy]

Entries 2,3 and 4 show the £3 rate for deaths 26/9/15

26/9/16 and 3/8/16

These amounts seem to have been paid in 1919 long after the change.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60506/42511_6129999_0068-00167/376608?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dUKArmyRegistersEffects%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dthomas%26gsln%3dhewish%26gsln_x%3dNN%26dbOnly%3d_F00061C3%257c_F00061C3_x%252c_F8007A65%257c_F8007A65_x%26uidh%3dag9%26pcat%3d39%26fh%3d0%26h%3d376608%26recoff%3d3%2b5%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[ss002d6252]

I have a relative killed 26/9/16 , not paid the £5.

Hmm, unless the dates were later revised they should have been , based on the article.

Who where they (I'm looking for some case studies to work with).

Craig

[johnboy]

Craig

You may have crossed my post #11 and the link?

[Guest]

Couple more here, I think Click

Mike

[ss002d6252]

Thanks guys,

What I really need are a range of men (half a dozen or so) where we have the (approx) enlistment date, date sent overseas and register entry so I can see what they work out. I've knocked up a quick spreadsheet to test my theory so if it works I'll pop it up for use.

Craig

[johnboy]

Off topic but pages 172 and 173 on Soldiers effects on Ancestry have two photos.

[ss002d6252]

My calculator is working out the dates as I want , all bar this bleedin £3 figure - I've checked a man I know enlisted Oct 14 and was killed Sep 16. When I knock of his 10s a month it comes out at £3 and the same for a man enlisted Feb 1915 , very curious.

Craig

[johnboy]

I'll have another look later tonight.

It might have made sense if the payments had been made, say, 6 mnths after death. But it seems the payments were not made until 1919 , long after the gratuities amendments and 4yrs after the men I have seen were killed.

[clk]

Reading the last two paragraphs of this http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1919/aug/18/war-gratuities#S5CV0119P0_19190818_CWA_161 if the £1 Service Gratuity was payable for each year, or part year, then are the £3 men those that would have had the £5 War Gratuity reduced because they had received 2 years worth of Service Gratuity?

Regards

Chris

[johnboy]

The gratuity figure shown gives no info on how it was worked out.

[ss002d6252]

Reading the last two paragraphs of this http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1919/aug/18/war-gratuities#S5CV0119P0_19190818_CWA_161 if the £1 Service Gratuity was payable for each year, or part year, then are the £3 men those that would have had the £5 War Gratuity reduced because they had received 2 years worth of Service Gratuity?

Regards

Chris

The men I have been looking at first are pre-war T.F. men who died in April 1915 so only have the basic gratuity so there should be no deductions to made in any case - unless some payment of £2 had previously been made to all the men and the £3 was the difference however this is was the case I'd expect it to have been noted somewhere.

For these men the rates given to Cpls and Sgts are both also correspondingly less than the later figures would suggest should be the case.

Craig

[johnboy]

A couple of £5's

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60506/42511_6129999_0068-00167/376608?backurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2F%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsse.dll%3Findiv%3D1%26db%3DUKArmyRegistersEffects%26rank%3D1%26new%3D1%26MSAV%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26gsfn%3Dthomas%26gsln%3Dhewish%26gsln_x%3DNN%26dbOnly%3D_F00061C3%257c_F00061C3_x%252c_F8007A65%257c_F8007A65_x%26uidh%3Dag9%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D376608%26recoff%3D3%2B5%26ml_rpos%3D1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord#?imageId=42511_6117463_0042-00009

[clk]

Thanks Craig,

I also stupidly forgot to take into account the monthly increments they should have accrued.

Regards

Chris

[ss002d6252]

I think that it has to have something to do with the war service gratuity which must have already been paid to some men which is why only £3 was paid - it's the only way at the moment that I can reconcile the figures. (also some cases I have looked at of men who have received larger amounts who are also missing £2 (and sometimes more )). The search continues.

Craig

[johnboy]

This seems a bit unlike Records Office / Pay Office who, if anything seemed to generate more than enough paperwork.

Surely they would have noted previous payments on the Soldiers Effects account sheets? If not, there must be a set of records for any first payments out there somewhere?

4 Anadain tablets in the post.