What WW1 books are you reading?

[knittinganddeath]

3 hours ago, healdav said:

I other words he was using the usage of the time.

You did convince me to re-evaluate him, and I discovered that a number of writers/scholars today think that he did not personally have those beliefs but only wrote to reflect the prevailing moods in society. I do think that his later actions show clearly which side he was on, and as one article pointed out, Sir Walter Bullivant (Richard Hannay's boss) describes another character's anti-Semitism as one of many "odd biases" that impedes his judgement. As a modern reader, I just find it a shame that Bullivant's remark is so subtle when taken in the context of the series.

3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wonder if he supported the odious Oswald Mosley, it certainly wouldn’t surprise me.

That's exactly what my husband said when I read him some of the passages. So we were shocked when Wikipedia told us that Buchan later became a proponent of Zionism, supported women's suffrage, and propagated the idea that racial & ethnic diversity were key to a nation's strength. But if Buchan in his books was simply providing a mirror for attitudes in society at the time, then it isn't really hard to see where Mosley's support came.

3 hours ago, phil andrade said:

 

“ No doubt, the sharp features of the Hebrew will be discernible behind most of them.

I found an article about attitudes towards Jews in the UK at the turn of the century. They were held responsible for pretty much anything bad. From the abstract:

"In the decades before the First World War, London worried about anarchist outrages, and particularly, about Jews said to instigate them. Jewish anarchists were rumoured to have been responsible for the 'ripper' murders in Whitechapel (1888), an attempt to blow up the Royal Observatory at Greenwich Park (1894) and the Houndsditch murders (1910)/Sidney Street affair (1911). Jews were a visible population in the East End, and editors, MPs, and police authorities offered Jewishness to explain the 'who' and 'why' of anarchist violence. Jews were also thought to have the capacity to become invisible, 'outsiders' who could pass for 'insiders'."

Edited 31 May , 2023 by knittinganddeath

[FROGSMILE]

15 minutes ago, knittinganddeath said:

You did convince me to re-evaluate him, and I discovered that a number of writers/scholars today think that he did not personally have those beliefs but only wrote to reflect the prevailing moods in society. I do think that his later actions show clearly which side he was on, and as one article pointed out, Sir Walter Bullivant (Richard Hannay's boss) describes another character's anti-Semitism as one of many "odd biases" that impedes his judgement. As a modern reader, I just find it a shame that Bullivant's remark is so subtle when taken in the context of the series.

That's exactly what my husband said when I read him some of the passages. So we were shocked when Wikipedia told us that Buchan later became a proponent of Zionism, supported women's suffrage, and propagated the idea that racial & ethnic diversity were key to a nation's strength. But if Buchan in his books was simply providing a mirror for attitudes in society at the time, then it isn't really hard to see where Mosley's support came.

I found an article about attitudes towards Jews in the UK at the turn of the century. They were held responsible for pretty much anything bad. From the abstract:

"In the decades before the First World War, London worried about anarchist outrages, and particularly, about Jews said to instigate them. Jewish anarchists were rumoured to have been responsible for the 'ripper' murders in Whitechapel (1888), an attempt to blow up the Royal Observatory at Greenwich Park (1894) and the Houndsditch murders (1910)/Sidney Street affair (1911). Jews were a visible population in the East End, and editors, MPs, and police authorities offered Jewishness to explain the 'who' and 'why' of anarchist violence. Jews were also thought to have the capacity to become invisible, 'outsiders' who could pass for 'insiders'."

Thank you for that comprehensive and thought provoking reply.  On reflection of your comments I’ve recalled the incidents concerning the Ripper murders and the Sidney Street siege.  From memory Russo-Jews who had fled the Imperial pogroms (plus Austro-Serbs) and taken refuge in London, often seem to have become synonymous with “anarchists” and anarchism and I find myself wondering how much of that was due to the then media baron’s propensity to whip up a storm that appealed to bias and as a result sold more newsprint (enriching them in the process).  Plus ca change!

Edited 31 May , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[phil andrade]

If memory serves me, BBC recently screened that grim but powerful drama Ripper Street, with Matthew McFadden in the principal role.

 

There was a theme depicting a traumatised Jewish refugee from the progrom as a culprit in some horrific murders.

 

Also Tom Hardy’s  portrayal of a cockney Jewish gangster in Peakey Blinders .

 

Forgive digression from book to screen, but sometimes there is a degree of conflation.

 

Phil

[seaJane]

11 hours ago, knittinganddeath said:

I'm not sure that I'll finish Mr Standfast.

That would be a shame, because Hannay changes his mind about this book's particular pacifist in the end. I don't think he necessarily aligned with his own characters' viewpoints, but he was fairly good about what would sell.

 

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wonder if he supported the odious Oswald Mosley

I rather doubt it. As Governor-General of Canada he organised the settlement of refugees from the Nazis into Canada. When he was an MP he chaired the Parliamentary Palestine Committee, and his name was inscribed in the Jewish Golden Book for his activities on behalf of the Jewish community. I've just been given the latest biography of him (by his grand-daughter Ursula) and will see what the index can tell me.

PS: Apologies both, I replied without reading the rest of the thread! Mea culpa.

Edited 31 May , 2023 by seaJane
apology

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, seaJane said:

That would be a shame, because Hannay changes his mind about this book's particular pacifist in the end. I don't think he necessarily aligned with his own characters' viewpoints, but he was fairly good about what would sell.

 

I rather doubt it. As Governor-General of Canada he organised the settlement of refugees from the Nazis into Canada. When he was an MP he chaired the Parliamentary Palestine Committee, and his name was inscribed in the Jewish Golden Book for his activities on behalf of the Jewish community. I've just been given the latest biography of him (by his grand-daughter Ursula) and will see what the index can tell me.

PS: Apologies both, I replied without reading the rest of the thread! Mea culpa.

Thanks SeaJane, I’m always interested in your posts and the more I’m learning about John Buchan in this thread the more I’m thinking ‘never judge a book by its cover’.  It certainly feels as if it’s more that he had a good commercial head for what would sell and really understood his readership, warts and all.

Edited 31 May , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, phil andrade said:

If memory serves me, BBC recently screened that grim but powerful drama Ripper Street, with Matthew McFadden in the principal role.

 

There was a theme depicting a traumatised Jewish refugee from the progrom as a culprit in some horrific murders.

 

Also Tom Hardy’s  portrayal of a cockney Jewish gangster in Peakey Blinders .

 

Forgive digression from book to screen, but sometimes there is a degree of conflation.

 

Phil

Yes, those are yet more examples of the undoubted theme Phil.

Edited 31 May , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[seaJane]

52 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thanks SeaJane, I’m always interested in your posts and the more I’m learning about John Buchan in this thread the more I’m thinking ‘never judge a book on its cover’.  It certainly feels as if it’s more that he had a good commercial head for what would sell and really understood his readership.

Thanks for the compliment . I started reading John Buchan during long afternoons at my grandmother's house - probably before I went to secondary school, for I'd read Prester John before we did it in class - and gradually hoovered up everything I could get hold of by and about him and his family.

sJ

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, seaJane said:

Thanks for the compliment . I started reading John Buchan during long afternoons at my grandmother's house - probably before I went to secondary school, for I'd read Prester John before we did it in class - and gradually hoovered up everything I could get hold of by and about him and his family.

sJ

I was a fan of John Buchan too and even now enjoy watching the 39 Steps movies that have been made over the many decades that have passed since he wrote the book.  It’s such a rollicking good yarn with the essentials of baddies, goodies, love interest and good prevailing over evil.

[seaJane]

6 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

love interest

Not in the book, though! 

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, seaJane said:

Not in the book, though! 

Yes he was quite ahead of his time really with feisty independent female characters!

[seaJane]

Out of interest, I have just looked at the index of Ursula Buchan's Beyond The Thirty-nine Steps: a life of John Buchan, and no sign of Oswald Mosley. Pp.299-300 in particular deal with JB's support for the Jewish people and his close friendships with Jews.

[phil andrade]

8 hours ago, seaJane said:

Out of interest, I have just looked at the index of Ursula Buchan's Beyond The Thirty-nine Steps: a life of John Buchan, and no sign of Oswald Mosley. Pp.299-300 in particular deal with JB's support for the Jewish people and his close friendships with Jews.

Several years ago I wrestled through Simon Heffer’s The Age of Decadence, which was a tour de force depicting British society in the decade before the Great War.

If memory serves me, the book explains that Edward VII was so reliant on Jewish financiers to bale him out on account of his gambling debts that he made a point of befriending them and introduced a degree of acceptance of Jews in Britain that differentiated the nation from more anti semitic continental countries.

Maybe I’ve misinterpreted this, but it’s an interesting suggestion: that the foibles and peccadilloes of a monarch’s extravagant lifestyle afforded Jewish bankers the chance to gain acceptance and respect in high society.

 

Phil

 

 

Edited 1 June , 2023 by phil andrade

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, seaJane said:

Out of interest, I have just looked at the index of Ursula Buchan's Beyond The Thirty-nine Steps: a life of John Buchan, and no sign of Oswald Mosley. Pp.299-300 in particular deal with JB's support for the Jewish people and his close friendships with Jews.

It’s good to know that Buchan wasn’t a part of that set that was so despicable in the lead up to WW2.

1 hour ago, phil andrade said:

Several years ago I wrestled through Simon Heffer’s The Age of Decadence, which was a tour de force depicting British society in the decade before the Great War.

If memory serves me, the book explains that Edward VII was so reliant on Jewish financiers to bale him out on account of his gambling debts that he made a point of befriending them and introduced a degree of acceptance of Jews in Britain that differentiated the nation from more anti semitic continental countries.

Maybe I’ve misinterpreted this, but it’s an interesting suggestion: that the foibles and peccadilloes of a monarch’s extravagant lifestyle afforded Jewish bankers to gain acceptance and respect in high society.

 

Phil

 

 

Ironically very different from his forebear Edward I then Phil.

[Marilyne]

Hi all, 

have we all stopped reading?? Nobody posted since 1st June... 

I'll get on with it then... had a busy two months, unfortunately not with WW1 readings. I've fallen behind a bit on my schedule (what else is new? I hear you sigh...)

So after finishing my research on the Wimereux girls, I decided to return to the Somme a bit and have taken Sebag-Montefiore's seminal "Somme" back into my hands. I had Boyfriend bring it to me in hospital in January, but they kicked me home before the WE started and I got sidetracked. For the next two weeks holiday I want to read that one and also go back to Middlebrook's "First day on the Somme", which I read 8 years ago and Lynn McDonald's "Somme" before turning to Peter Liddle's "the Battle of the Somme reconsidered", although I understand the latter did not received the same reviews everywhere. 

We'll see how far it gets... 

M.

[aengland]

Yes, Liddle's book got a bashing, particularly from the late and fascinating Alf Peacock.  Look as his Gun Fire magazine on the WFA's website for his reviews..... read and smile.....

A

 

 

[maxi]

I didn't think that Vera Brittain's Testament of Youth would be a book that would be up my alley. but I am really enjoying it.

 

Edited 18 August , 2023 by maxi

[phil andrade]

50 minutes ago, maxi said:

I didn't think that Vera Brittain's Testament of Youth would be a book that would be up my alley. but I am really enjoying it.

 

Yes, and the BBC drama of the late 1970s contributed to its impact.

 The recent death of her daughter, Shirley Williams, lends an immediacy to it.

Phil

[maxi]

Phil

I saw the 2014 film starring Alicia Vikander. Goodness she was and still is gorgeous. 

[seaJane]

Following my post here 

I have obtained the book in question and am reading it in small doses.

[FROGSMILE]

21 hours ago, maxi said:

Phil

I saw the 2014 film starring Alicia Vikander. Goodness she was and still is gorgeous. 

I recommend the BBC series as both, more accurate, and more atmospheric of the times.  The actors seemed to make an effort to converse as their grandparents did and that helped to convey the era to watchers.  The film, like so many modern dramas, seemed to think that actors have to use contemporary speech patterns and demeanour if they are to entice younger watchers.

Edited 19 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[maxi]

Thank you for your recommendation which I will try to track down.

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, maxi said:

Thank you for your recommendation which I will try to track down.

It is available on DVD.

[maxi]

Thank you

[TullochArd]

On 12/04/2022 at 14:43, charlie962 said:

I found his namesake's (Townshend) book "When God Made Hell" a more objective explanation in the context of the creation of Iraq, if slightly heavier going. 

Great recommendation Charlie.  I've followed up on it and just finished reading it. You're spot on with your comment of "a more objective explanation in the context of the the creation of Iraq"  and equally spot on with "if slightly heavier going"  I found the detailed presentation of the parallel military and political "aims" fascinating and enlightening.  A most interesting and worthwhile book that exercised a lot more of my brain cells than a typical read would.  Well worth the effort.  Many thanks.

[Michelle Young]

On 19/08/2023 at 17:45, FROGSMILE said:

I recommend the BBC series as both, more accurate, and more atmospheric of the times.  The actors seemed to make an effort to converse as their grandparents did and that helped to convey the era to watchers.  The film, like so many modern dramas, seemed to think that actors have to use contemporary speech patterns and demeanour if they are to entice younger watchers.

I agree with Frogsmile. Cheryl Campbells portrayal of Vera is superb. I didn’t like the film at all.