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SCOUT REGIMENT and SIGNALLING TELESCOPES


philsr
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HI

I found a telescope in the back of my attic, could you tell me any history about it and whether it is worth me getting it insured.

unfortunately I cant load it on this site but it has the following on it:

TELE.SCT.REGTS MK 11 then there is a very tiny 8 next to the last 1

H.R.C. & SON Ltd

OS 126 GA

NO 20060

Thank you

Lou

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HI

I found a telescope in the back of my attic, could you tell me any history about it and whether it is worth me getting it insured.

unfortunately I cant load it on this site but it has the following on it:

TELE.SCT.REGTS MK 11 then there is a very tiny 8 next to the last 1

H.R.C. & SON Ltd

OS 126 GA

NO 20060

Thank you

Lou

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Lou,

It's a Telescope Scout Regiment Mk IIs (It's an 's' not an'8')

Are you sure that the maker is H.R.C and not H.C.R if that's the case they are H.C. Ryland and Son.

OS126GA, Mikb and I think is an Optical Stores number and appears on all Scout Regiment Telescopes.

20060 is the serial number making it a fairly late one.

The early ones were leather covered and later ones usually plastic covered, although like most things regarding these telescopes, anything is possible.

These telescopes are invariably called sniper's telescopes, however there were far more of these telescopes than there ever were snipers.

All sorts of soldiers used them, observers, signallers, spotters etc. and oh! yes! snipers.

They are a good telescope and saw service all through WW11 and well into the seventies.

They are not terribly rare, the cheapest I saw on Ebay was about £50 for a well battered one, but I have seen them go for as much as £200 for a good one with its carrying case.

I hope that this helps, mikb might well add some more info.

philsr

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Well, thank you Phil. Not a whole lot more to add really. If you look further back in the thread, Lou, you'll see more info. It's a good, no-frills, 20x or 22x 2" hand telescope, easy to handle and use once you get the hang of it, and the full length (size matters, y'know :D) gives you a steady view at that magnification that you'd never get from binos of the same strength without bolting them to a tripod.

Minty examples wiith all the blacking on the tubes can touch £300, especially if someone over in the States gets interested.

Regards,

MikB

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Hi philsr

Thank you for that information, it has been a great help. I think a may sell it as I far too many antiques in my small house. Before I list it on ebay could you give me a rough date and its origin. It is leather stitch, 3 drawer with the bit that pulls out over lens.

I cant upload any photos to you on this site, is there another way I can send you some photos?

Again thanks for your help

Lou

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Lou,

At a guess, it's probably post WW2 and as I said, made by H.C. Ryland.

I have never seen a Scout Regiment Telescope with any sort of regimental markings.

So I have no idea of its origin or even if it was ever issued at all.

That's about the best I can do.

Regards

philsr

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They always fetch more if you put the word 'Sniper' in the description. Certain buyers obviously have that as one of their search keywords. Sometimes not having a case doesn't put 'em off - it's a matter of luck, really.

The OS numbers are probably stock item codes, though the Army Museum told me they were Contract Nos., and the 20060 is a unique Serial No. for that specific scope. Phil's already told you that once.

Regards,

MikB

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Gent,

Another Ebay gem, item 290209036029 engraved as -

ELLIOT BROS

LONDON

1920

No 1264

TEL SIG MK II also GS

The seller did state that there were doubts about authenticity.

A MK II dated 1920 ?

Draw your own conclusions.

Philsr

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Yep, phoney as a brass transistor :D .

Size is a bit of a giveaway, as are the huge flanges and the undersized objective.

But really, don't those fakir chaps know there are 2 't's in 'Elliott'? :rolleyes:

(Ah, but actually I see it's the seller that spelt it wrong, not the fakirs)

Long may they remain at their present level of skill...

Regards,

MikB

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Gents,

I thought that I had found another unknown manufacturer for the Scout Reg, now I am not so sure.

Take a look at Ebay item 110225919781 engraved as -

TEL SCT REGT MKIIs

A. L. VINCENT

LONDON EC1

2613

It looks to me like someone, probably a while ago added the 'TEL SCT REGT MKIIs' to an existing old scope.

Or just maybe, it's what it claims to be.

Any thoughts will be welcome.

philsr

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I had doubts too, but on balance I think it may be legit. It has the Broad Arrow but no OS nos., which I'd guess puts it in 1939 - 41 or 2.

Design and cosmetic appearance is rather "civilian", but broadly matches Scout Reg dimensions.

Never heard of A. L. Vincent as a scope maker, and they don't appear in Webster's. But the engraving looks exactly right as does the stamped arrow.

Don't think I'd bid on it, precisely because it's so far from the norm.

Regards,

MikB

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The telescope on ebay is mine. Do you think its worth more than £50?

Didn't it do well.... :D

Regards,

MikB

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hello looking for some help with 2 scopes i was given. This info might also help your database of serial numbers aswell

one has the markings BROADHURST CLARKSON & CO. LTD and there london address. this one has 2 leather end caps held by leather belt the brass tubes have some small dents and the objective lens has a couple of small chips however the picture is great.

the other one has TEL. SCT REGT. MKIIs and the under that within a diamond it has B.C LTD & CO then under the diamond it has 25467 and under that it has 0.5.1.2.6.G.A with the crows foot under that. this has an outer sleeve and a case that the scope goes in. the tubes are fine and the lenses are fine.

im looking at selling them and was wondering what kind of money these go for i have looked on ebay and some of the prices are lower than i would have thought for such amazing pices of craftsmanship.

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The first one isn't identifiable without more info such as closed and open length, main lens diameter etc., but is likely a commercial general purpose or deerstalking scope.

The second is by the same maker (BC&Co = Broadhurst Clarkson & Co) and is a Scout Regiment military telescope of the sort already discussed at some length on this thread. The one most recently discussed went for just over £150 on Ebay without a case.

If you sell it, be sure to include that it's a sniper's stalking telescope (WW2 - introduced in 1939) in the title if you can, or at least in the description - and take some nice photos. It could make over £200 with luck.

Regards,

MikB

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John,

As you say, they are amazing pieces of workmanship, unfortunately from your point of view, if you intend to sell them, they were made by the thousand.

So they are nice but unless by an obscure maker, not that rare.

Thanks for the serial number, they all help.

Gents,

On another note, I bought the Negretti and Zambra Tel Sig MkIV off Ebay.

It's dated 1917 with a short 3.5 inch sun shield.

It was advertised as broken, so I got what I expected, so no problem with the purchase.

However, the threaded ring into which the tube on which the sun shade slides had become detached from the body.

It was originally soft soldered in place, to redo the solder would mean removing the leather due to the heat.

Has anyone ever tried heavy duty Locktite for this? It's a display item so won't get too much handling.

Also the tapered body and the sun shade had been held in place many years ago with sticky tape.

Has anyone got any idea of a solvent for the residue which won't attack the leather?

philsr

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Not quite clear on the damage, but if you're gluing a sleeve into a ring then red threadlock could work well - in fact it could be very difficult to dismantle. The stuff's good in shear, but not much use in tension.

Is there a problem removing the leather? I've done this in a few cases when I wanted to restitch or clean brass parts underneath.

Regards,

MikB

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Mik,

At the big end of the tapered body is a threaded portion.

The parallel section on which the sun shade slides screws into this.

The threaded portion in the tapered body is actually a seperate piece soft soldered in.

On this one it looks like they had a dry joint when it was originally built.

Also the sun shade is tight on the parallel section.

I guess that the combination of the poor joint and tight sun shade caused the joint to fail when someone used a bit of force to shift the shade.

It's the red Loctite which I intend to use, I just need to scrounge some from one of my automotive mates.

Incidentaly the sticky tape residue was the crusty stuff left by ancient masking tape.

I got it off the brass easily with a Brillo pad and lots of water.

In the end, in desperation, I very carefully used an edge of the Brillo pad on the leather, two rubs and check if I had removed the crud, two more and so on, eventualy it all came off.

I good polishing with Connolly's Hide Care and it looks as good as new.

Phil

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MikB,

The red Loctiite worked a treat.

A very satisfactory restoration, another Tel Sig back from the brink, it now looks nearly as good as new.

In the end I reassembled the sun shield correctly (It was on back to front with the locking ring just jammed in to place), removed the masking tape residue, stuck the front end back on with Loctite and gave the leather a good polish.

Philsr

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MikB

There seems to be no logic whatsoever to the sun shade story.

Returning to an earler theory, I noticed how close the closed draws are to the inside of the objective lens with the short sunshade and support tube fitted.

Maybe, they were always assembled with short tubes and if they clashed due to tolerances going the wrong way, a longer sun shade and support tube was fitted.

Selective assembly really only started to disappear with the introduction of CNC machining.

On another point on the N and Z telescope there numbers scratched by hand at the back of the draws.

The front and centre draws have a '3' and the smallest draw an '11'.

None of my other telescopes have it and I am wondering if it was evidence of workers at N and Z or a sub-contractor marking their work to ensure that they got their 'Piecework' payments.

'Piecework' was common during both wars, workers got a small basic salary and were paid a bonus by the number of pieces produced.

Alternatively it could be an inspectors number, but I doubt it, all a bit unecessary for a simple brass tube.

Philsr

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I've often seen Roman numerals marked on drawtubes in places where they'd never be visible without dismantling, but the purpose has always escaped me - there's never any obvious logic to them.

If they were intended to guide reassembly, they failed spectacularly as I've found telescopes I've bought incorrectly assembled rather more often than not - the most recent was as exactly wrong as it could be... :D

As a matter of interest, N&Z were selling Mk.IVs to the civilian market at £7-10s-0d in 1921. That's at least 3 weeks' average national wage, so it'd make them in the order of half-a-grand in modern money.

Regards,

MikB

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MikB,

I looked up the price of modern spotting scopes, the cheap ones run at £50 to £100 but the really good ones go well up to and over £500.

So in real terms, accepting that the MkIV was probably state of the art in 1921 the price comes out about right.

It would be interesting however to find out what the Army were paying, a lot less I suspect.

Philsr

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