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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

SCOUT REGIMENT and SIGNALLING TELESCOPES


philsr
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Gents,

I have just e-mailed the seller to see which eyepiece is fitted as there does not appear to be the usual spare one.

I will let you know the result.

I am almost inclined to put in a serious bid purely out of curiosity.

Regards

philsr

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Gents,

The seller came back saying that the eyepiece was unmarked.

I reckon that it only came with one.

I think that you are right, it was built by Becks post war.

I have been told that all military contracts were cancelled the moment the war ended, leaving manufacturers with unused stock.

Regards

philsr

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All optical kit seems to have the OS number.

Some end in GA, A and SA.

Which to me are General Assembly, Assembly and Sub Assembly.

Looking at the IPC the three suffixes seem to run gown from the top GA.

It's been suggetsed to me that OS stands for 'Optical Stores'

Any thoughts?

Philsr

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Hi

I thought this may be of help showing the Sectional view of the MKII, from a manual of mine..

The original is much larger.

post-6628-1199239828.jpg

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I've seen that suggestion before, and I think it's highly likely.

Although the Army Museum said it stood for 'Ordnance Supply' as a Contract No. prefix, I can't visualise the same contract running for most of the service life of the instrument and being used as a stores identifier on the instrument itself. Some form of stock code is the only identifier that makes sense, and in that context your suggestion is appealing intuitively. Further more, I've not seen anything 'non-optical' marked with an OS number.

But I've seen nothing in the way of definitive evidence, either.

Regards,

MikB

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Hi

Thought I would add re the tripods, after going through all of my Signals manuals from 1904 to 1939.

No mention is ever made of a short tripod, the tripod was carried slung over the back, I have never seen a small

tripod with a carry strap to fit it even though they have the top bracket for a strap ,but never the bracket on the leg, so I see the short tripods as being modified at some later point maybe for civilian shooters.

In period photos in the trenches I have seen the just have the telescope resting the the telescope on the the trench, no need for a tripod.......

With no carry strap it would be a pick of a thing to lug around even at the small size with a telescope and rifle.

What are your thoughts

Also another drawing post-6628-1199277141.jpg

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The Signaller of any Mark is a pig of a thing to lug around on its own, never mind with stand and rifle... :D

It's over 4 lb, and unless you take the trouble to unstrap it, you have to support all that when using it handheld, whereas a Scout Reg is lighter even in its case, and much lighter out of it. One of the things that struck me about that abortive Mk.V was that some officer actually commented that it was lighter than the Mk.IV as if that was a drawback, and suggested thickening up the brass to return the Mk.V to 'Service Weight'. Huh, the lions were dying all up and down the front, but the donkeys were kicking as hard as ever...

Thanks for the drawings. The section looks to show a rayshade about 4" long, the sketch somewhat shorter, so we still have the question of two apparently coexisting sizes of this assembly. It does appear to show the screwed rings for the glands or drawtube bushes as being set well inside the tubes, though, which suggests that setting them at the mouth and screwing the shoulder of the gland instead of the inner end may've been a mid/late wartime economy measure.

Regards,

MikB

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Gents,

The only short tripods that I have seen are civilian ones.

There was a really elaborate brass stand on Ebay a few weeks ago along with a Dallmeyer Mk IV, but it was well out of my price range.

Incidentally I have just bought a Broadhurst Clarkson Mk VI and it has the 4" sun shade.

I have nearly got the set, Mk III, Mk IV, Mk IV** and Mk VI from a selection of manufacturers.

Next task is some gentle restoration.

I am still awaiting the return of my re-covered telescope, I will let you know how it turns out.

Regards

philsr

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Gents,

I have been looking at who made which Signallers Telescopes.

So far I have the following out of an admittedly small sample of 30.

MkI and MkII

No data.

MkIII

Beck, Ross, Ottway and Watson.

MkIV

Broadhurst & Clarkson, Ryland, Dallmeyer, Negretti & Zambra, Beck and T. T & H.

MkVI

Broadhurst & Clarkson and Ryland.

It looks like when the MkIII contracts ran out Ross, Ottway and Watson went of to other work, probably naval.

If anyone can add to the data, please feel free to do so.

philsr

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Gents,

There is a Scout Regiment MkIIs number 5467 on Ebay made by H.B.M and Co.

Any idea who H.B.M. and Co were.

This is the second time this particular scope has been on Ebay in the last two months.

Do they usually change hands this fast?

Regards

Philsr

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Seen a Tel Sig Mk.II by Clarkson a while back. IIRC it was from 1903, before Broadhurst bought the company.

Found the HBM Scout Reg. It looks in good nick and the serial no. is interestingly low, but I've no idea either who that maker might be.

Regards,

MikB

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Gents,

There is a telescope on Ebay by R & J Beak of London Number 3303.

R & J Beak not R & J Beck.

Not one of the Indian ones by any chance?

There is also a Parker Hale TEL6 which looks just like a Tel Sig to me.

Regards

Philsr

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I took a chance and bought it.

Is it old? Yes

Is it as described on Ebay? Yes

Is it genuine? Yes

Am I happy with it? Yes

It is a Sig Tel MkIV and GS? Er well no!

It has the short ray shield as we suspected it would.

It has the eyepiece set up as used on a Scout Regiment Telescope with the lens assembly separate from the brass surrounding.

It's possibly a commencial scope produced by Beck with an eye to the fact that a lot of their customers would have seem them during the War.

I am guessing, as you can see, that the name was probably a bit of a marketing ploy by Becks.

Philsr

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New maker to add to the list for Mk.IIIs - Troughton & Simms; look at ebay item 280191933071, once you get past the eyewatering spelling... :rolleyes:

Regards,

MikB

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That's a Scout Regiment, by Broadhurst Clarkson. It was on issue from 1939 for 40 years as the Army's standard observation telescope, also standard issue to sniping teams on a scale of 8 per battallion.

Clean and in good condition, it's still one of the best hand telescopes ever made. The full-length design gives a steadiness in handheld use that binoculars or short prismatic scopes can never get near, for the same reason that a rifle shoots better than a pistol.

Regards,

MikB

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Gents,

Having taken my refurbished Scout Regiment Telescope on 25 yard and 200 yard rifle ranges and been happy as Larry.

I tried out my Ross Tel Sig MkIII on a 25 yard range last night.

Now I know why they Scout regiment scope split the difference between the x15 and x30 magnifications on the Tel Sig.

At x30 the magnification was too much only about 60% of a British Match target being visible through the scope and at x15 I could not see the bullet holes clearly.

No surprise either that holding the telescope still a x30 was not easy.

I am going to take it to Ash Ranges this weekend, it will be intersting to see if the same problems occur outdoors.

philsr

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I think you're right about the compromise magnification.

There's also the very real advantage of taking a set of components - the additional eyepiece and case - out of inventory management; and removing the temptation to waste time fiddling about swapping between them when you should be observing! :D

Regards,

MikB

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It's a good possibility. There's a Ross scope being sold with a 1916 tripod (Sig Tel Stand Mk.V) made by Houghton-Butcher) on the bay at the moment.

The company wound up at the latest in 1945, which would make the scope on sale in extremely good nick for war issue kit.

Regards,

MikB

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  • 3 weeks later...

Another one for the list of Tel Sig makers:

200198416322 (you know where... :D)

Negretti & Zambra Mk.II from 1903. I knew they'd made Mk.IVs, at least from 1917, but this one's a bit of a surprise.

Regards,

MikB

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HI

I found a telescope in the back of my attic, could you tell me any history about it and whether it is worth me getting it insured.

unfortunately I cant load it on this site but it has the following on it:

TELE.SCT.REGTS

Thank you

Lou

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