Lack of people wearing poppies?

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Is it just me or are others seeing less people wearing poppies this year?

Walking across the concourse at Waterloo Station this morning, the only people I saw wearing poppies were me, a poppy seller and middle aged lady.

OK some people may have been wearing them on jackets under coats but that would not account for such low numbers.

Very sad particularly in view of the 50 UK soldiers who have died in Iraq this year.

Lest we forget?

Ian

[gem22]

Ian

It isn't your imagination. London is particularly bad but the problem is national. The RBL is suffering from a lack of Poppy Appeal Organisers and Collectors. One town a few miles from where I live had no poppies available in shops or on the streets up till Thursday last week. I don't know if the situation has improved because I am waiting for the Organiser to respond to my offer of help as a collector.

The organiser in my own branch has been working tirelessly since before the Appeal opened but not everyone is as conscientious as him.

The RBL launched a new poster campaign in the summer in an effort to attract more collectors but, locally, it appears to have had little effect. Frankly it needs people, such as the members of this forum, to offer to help.

Before anyone bites my head off, if any of you do help already THANKYOU.

As I will be branch organiser next year I know that any help offered is greatly appreciated.

I certainly would not put a lack of visible poppies down to apathy on the part of the public. On my rounds I have generally been well received, only one person appeared hostile to my suggestion he contribute, otherwise it has gone quite well.

But even here we could have done with more bodies on the streets.

Garth

[Andy Shaw]

Couldn't agree more Ian, also in the past week I have witnessed a couple of instances were Poppy sellers have been moved on. Last week while on holiday in Devon a gentleman who had seen service in WW2 was moved on from outside a trendy fashion shop for fear of putting off customers. Then I return home on Friday to find that our local library had this year refused to have poppies and collecting tins in reception, as this would be unfair to other charities that might also want to collect and would be refused permission. This in a town were a local VC holder is commemorated.

Andy

[Kate Wills]

I find Andy (Crimea's) experiences appalling. Libraries are under the control of County Councils, so maybe the directive eminates from there (I am trying to avoid saying 'politically-correct').

I have seen more trays + collection boxes around recently, for instance in the staff room of my local primary school, and Reception of the University extension, and I'm seeing plenty of people wearing poppies, and expect to see more as the week progresses.

My recent expereience is this:

On Saturday morning Martin & I bought poppies from a WFA colleague on the Market Square, and he was pretty busy. We put these in our coats and went on our way, but when I returned home, mine had disappeared. We went to Franklin's Gardens in the afternoon for Northampton v. Gloucester, and with it being the nearest home match to Remembrancetide, the match was preceded by a wreath-laying ceremony and a silence. The poppy sellers were given seats near the aisles, and again were doing good trade, not least from me, buying my second in the space of four hours.

So, if numbers are down that is regrettable, and I join Garth's call for help from all who can. However, has the RBL addressed the problem of modern clothing? Years ago, virtually all jackets and coats had buttonholes, but zip jackets and fleeces are not always so adorned.

It could well be that, like me, many people are popping poppies in pockets for safe-keeping.

[Fleur]

we, at work, ALWAYS have a box of poppies / crosses/ window stickers in our common room for collection durring opening hours.

Pins are available to attach poppies, but to be honest, I always forget to pick one up when I collect my annual poppies for me and him in doors (and being no seemstress, it is always difficult to find a pin in my house)

perhaps RBL should consider producing paper poppies (as they already do) but with a badge pin fixing on the back. This would increase the price slightly of producing them, but I think that it would incourage more people to wear them.

Consider the pink ribbon for breast cancer awareness. I am sure that they would not have had such a responce to the compaign had a pin have been needed to attach the ribbons to clothing.

Fleur

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Ummmmmmm............. for want of an overused expression 'it must be a London thing'!

Well I hope the City people who rush past the veteran who is selling poppies on their way to make millions and the trendy things heading to the West End trying hard to ignore his table don't forget what granddad did - I would never be able to look mine again in the face.

Until my wife met me she never bought a poppy and then I took her see Brookwood Military Cemetary, now......................

So sad.

Ian

[gem22]

However, has the RBL addressed the problem of modern clothing? Years ago, virtually all jackets and coats had buttonholes, but anoraks and fleeces are not so adorned.

Kate

The RBL has certainly tried to take modern clothing into consideration. Every Poppy Appeal Organiser is sent packets of pins to give to people with their poppies. However you may well have seen articles in the press recently about said pins. Not all collectors are happy with them and do not offer them.

Personally I have two fleeces with poppies pinned on them and my blazer has one in the button-hole. I will offer people pins but I can understand why some collectors are reluctant. We are living in a society in which far too many people are prepared to resort to litigation to seek recompense for there own stupidity.

Pins are sharp objects. If you are careless and stab yourself is it really fair to sue the person who gave you the pin. Sadly a lot of people out there feel that you can. This means that Poppy Appeal collectors no longer feel comfortable giving pins away.

In the not to distant future I suspect that the RBL will redesign the Poppy again. The new design will possibly incorporate a safety pin. This is only speculation but based on discussions with collectors and organisers.

Garth

[Guest Pete Wood]

I too have had problems buying a poppy. Like Ian, I live in London. I was at Waterloo on Friday and there were no poppy sellers there - and I made a point of walking up and down a few times, looking.

Sadly, I think that there are less volunteers willing to do the job for no payment. A lot of the so-called charity workers (not RBL of course) that I have come across, at London Train Stations, are on a commission - Yes really!! It's made me think twice about putting my hands in my pocket; this coming from a guy who is on first-name terms with (what appears to be) half of London's homeless community....

[Terry Denham]

This past weekend, the Premiership football teams were wearing poppies. I have not seen that before.

[Guest Hill 60]

I ventured from the safety of Wolverton into the CMK Shopping Centre today and was suprised to find a lack of Poppy sellers .

There is normally about 8 Poppy sellers, doted around the building, every day leading up to the 11th; but today I saw one female sitting outside the Post Office and 3 members of the TA RGJs, who were walking around together.

Many years ago, when I was in the Security Department of the same shopping centre, there was a ban on the selling of poppies in the building. The ban materialized when a Japanese company bought a percentage in the building, and our bosses didn't want to upset them by allowing the sale of poppies; to make matters worse we were also banned from having a minute silence at 11:00hrs on Rememberance Sunday, which we always announced on the PA system. A large portion of the Security staff were ex-forces, and it goes without saying that we ignored the views of our bosses and went ahead with the minute silence

[BeppoSapone]

I too have had problems buying a poppy. Like Ian, I live in London. I was at Waterloo on Friday and there were no poppy sellers there - and I made a point of walking up and down a few times, looking.

Sadly, I think that there are less volunteers willing to do the job for no payment. A lot of the so-called charity workers (not RBL of course) that I have come across, at London Train Stations, are on a commission - Yes really!! It's made me think twice about putting my hands in my pocket; this coming from a guy who is on first-name terms with (what appears to be) half of London's homeless community....

Here in Derbyshire I have found no problem in buying a poppy. However, all of the two dozen poppies I have had so far this year have come from the boxes of poppies left in shops. Maybe as we get closer to the 11th November I will actually see a "real live" poppy seller in the street?

People following the earlier thread on poppies will have seen mention of the English poppies with no leaf. I have searched in vain for these. I would also liked to have obtained a few of the poppy crosses. I have not seen them this year, although I did buy some from a poppy seller last year.

I have also been looking for some of the "Star of David" poppies, but have never seen any up here. When I lived in the south I saw these on a regular basis in both London and Brighton, but no-where else in Sussex. I suppose that this is just due to a lack of Jews in the 'Peak District'? However, I think that everything ought to be made available to everyone.

[gem22]

Beppo

If you want a poppy without a leaf take the leaf off one you have bought already. The leaf is not a permanent fixture.

As for real live poppy collectors the reason you haven't seen them is because yesterday (Sunday 02/11/03) was the first day we were allowed to have street collections. We could put collecting boxes in shops, and we could do house to house collections, over a week ago; but street collections are governed by local councils and very few allow The RBL to collect for more that 1 week.

If you still want a cross send me your address, URGENTLY, and I will send you one of mine; I still have about 12 left. I will trust you to make a suitable donation in your own area. I do not wish to upset your local organiser by poaching on his/her territory. It is not acceptable practice.

Garth

[armourersergeant]

Many who fear offending other charities would do well to remember that without the sacrifice of those the poppy appeal stands for alot of those charities would have no existance, especially those to do with the handicapped etc given the logical conclusion of Hitlers final solution.

In my shop it is the only charity who i will allow to have space on my cash desk and as long as i am there it will be the same. Also every staff member wears a poppy, they include Muslim, Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, Hindu all voluntery and not press ganged.

The lady who came in with the poppies did mention that those that help are getting older and less able to get around and she herself had been out all day doing the rounds, this is probably a major factor in the lack of poppy 'sellers'

Less We Forget.

Arm.

[Fleur]

I only found out this year about the real problem there seems to be trying to get volunters to mooch about selling poppies.

I might, next year, see if I can't get something put up in the student areas of the university departments asking for volunteers.

I'm sure if I printed enough posters up with the RBL web address on them then some kind hearted students with a little time on thier hands might be prepared to go out and do their bit on the streets for the RBL.

I wil even volunteer myself next year (couldn't this year - too many other comitments )

Fleur

[BeppoSapone]

Beppo

If you want a poppy without a leaf take the leaf off one you have bought already. The leaf is not a permanent fixture.

As for real live poppy collectors the reason you haven't seen them is because yesterday (Sunday 02/11/03) was the first day we were allowed to have street collections. We could put collecting boxes in shops, and we could do house to house collections, over a week ago; but street collections are governed by local councils and very few allow The RBL to collect for more that 1 week.

If you still want a cross send me your address, URGENTLY, and I will send you one of mine; I still have about 12 left. I will trust you to make a suitable donation in your own area. I do not wish to upset your local organiser by poaching on his/her territory. It is not acceptable practice.

Garth

Garth

Thanks for your reply, I stand corrected re: poppy sellers, and shall certainly be looking out for them this week.

So too with leafless poppies. I have only read of them in this group and have not actually seen one. I shall buy a few extra poppies and "de-leaf" them!

I have sent you an email re: the crosses.

[gem22]

I might, next year, see if I can't get something put up in the student areas of the university departments asking for volunteers.

I'm sure if I printed enough posters up with the RBL web address on them then some kind hearted students with a little time on thier hands might be prepared to go out and do their bit on the streets for the RBL.

Fleur

No need to print posters. The RBL do it themselves. Contact your county office or RBL direct. Someone will get them to you.

As for students- if they are anything like the ones in this university they never have spare time

Garth

[stevew]

There are definetly very few poppy wearers about this year. I was at The Menin Gate Saturday night, and I am convinced that even I was in the minority with my poppy, I am sure this wasn't my imagination, and there was even a poppy seller there - I saw one person make a donation.

I was out in Kent Saturday morning and I felt the odd one out with my poppy, the few I did see (and I mean a few - no more than half a dozen) were all worn by the the older generation. I have got 2 trips to London this week, so I will make a mental note to see how many I can see!

[Matt Dixon]

Far be it from me to question that bastion of British journalism that is the Black Country Express and Star, but they informed me that the British Legion are reluctant to sell poppies with pins, for fear of attracting personal injury claims from people who injure themselves with the pins!

Just to proove that the paper always tells the truth I purchased a poppy this morning, complete with resplendant shining pin, from a seller right in the heart of the black country!

Possibly a case of "sticking" to the facts I think........

[Malcolm]

The Scottish one is also with pin. They are sold around the doors in my area by volunteers who do their own locality. All the schools have them and all the Universities have them in each building (try getting past the Servitors/Custodians/Janitors without buying one) Must say I haven't noticed fewer poppies this year.

Aye

Malcolm

[paul guthrie]

If someone files suit over sticking himself with a pin he/she knows is there as a lawyer I would much prefer to represent the defendant than the plaintiff. In other words such a fear would be quite unjustified.

We just don't see poppies at all here, one pal wanted some US but I doubt I will see one.

The American Legion has always been well to the right, is that true of RBL?

[michaeldr]

Sadly, I think that there are less volunteers willing to do the job for no payment.

I'm not in the UK at the moment, so it's difficult for me to comment, but the impression given by the TV and those who inhabit that area - politicians and others of that ilk - is that all seem to wearing their poppies and doing the right thing

My 82 year old father has for many years past [he has had to give it up this year] sold the poppies in his rural area and he was always proud to report to the local press each year that a new record has been set. However, the area which took in a large village and a few hamlets was spread over several miles and he was appalled when he heard from his RBL Field Officer that others like him were actually claiming from the RBL for the petrol which they used.

I am very mush afraid that RT is correct and that the age of the volunteer seems to be passing.

Remembering

Michael D.R.

[Guest Hill 60]

I bought a few poppies the other day (Tesco, Wolverton) and noticed something about the black plastic centre. Most of them had the words 'Poppy Appeal', in two different styles, but a couple of the other poppies had 'Haig Fund' instead.

I haven't seen a 'Haig Fund' centre on a poppy for sometime, is this variation of wording common or have I picked up a couple of old 'Haig' poppies?

[Will O'Brien]

I ventured from the safety of Wolverton into the CMK Shopping Centre today and was suprised to find a lack of Poppy sellers .

There is normally about 8 Poppy sellers, doted around the building, every day leading up to the 11th; but today I saw one female sitting outside the Post Office and 3 members of the TA RGJs, who were walking around together.

Lee I'm afraid I must agree, I was up at the centre this afternoon, allowing Mrs O'B some retail therapy & it was shocking to see the lack Poppy sellers. I only saw one of the TA chaps & I'm ashamed to say he didn't look particularly interested in selling his wares but certainly more interested in chatting to his mate.

[gem22]

Far be it from me to question that bastion of British journalism that is the Black Country Express and Star, but they informed me that the British Legion are reluctant to sell poppies with pins, for fear of attracting personal injury claims from people who injure themselves with the pins!

If I might add just a little bit more on this subject; the item about pins first appeared on BBC Radio News last week. It also surfaced in the national press. I saw it in the Daily Telegraph. It was not something dreamed up by a local newspaper.

The RBL send out pins with the poppies whether the Appeal Organiser wants them or not.

Any fears over litigation have arisen at a local level; not at national level up to now. Hopefully people will come to their senses and this will prove to be no more than a storm in a teacup. But we do live in a world that thinks about litigation a lot more and it has to be taken seriously. Personally I blame TV. The number of adverts we see for accident litigation is stupid.

Might I also correct another anomaly that is creeping in on this subject. There is no such thing as a 'Poppy Seller'. They are 'Poppy Appeal Collectors'. Where street collections are concerned the volunteers are not allowed to approach you and ask you to buy a poppy. They are not supposed to rattle the tins either. It's a very sad thing but as a collector myself I daren't do anything that would jeopardise our local licence. The RBL is very dependent on the good will of the local councils who issue the licences. Not all councils are as generous as they might be. Ours allowed us a whole week of street collections this year but some only give one or two days. Last year we got 10 days so this year is not so good. We have to work harder on house to house. If you wish to complain speak to your local organiser who will clarify the situation where you live.

Do bear in mind that councillors say when and where poppy collections can be held - not the RBL. The RBL can only ask for permission to hold the appeal.

That is why we don't see people on the streets as early as you can do house to house and static collections.

And please do buy your poppy from a shop or house to house collection rather than not at all. And as I said in an earlier posting if you think we need more street collectors then please volunteer next year. I know already that I will need more helpers in a years time. A few of the current collectors have indicated that they intend to retire.

Garth

[bmac]

Apparently some 200,000 poppies on their way to distributors are stuck in the post as a result of the strikes.