Glory Hole to Disappear?

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

Simon , just read your piece in the WFA mag this morning. Very well written.

Regards,

Roland.

[uncle bill]

can you tell us more Roland ?

[Owen D]

can you tell us more Roland ?

see post #162

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

can you tell us more Roland ?

Simons article appears in this months WFA magazine.

Roland.

[mooshwah]

Bonjour,

cela fait maintenant quelques temps que je n'étais pas venue, et je vois que les choses ont évolué.

En effet, les personnes qui ont acheté le terrain concerné sont maintenant propriétaires d'un terrain dont ils ne peuvent rien faire, même pas y aller car dangereux, ils ont vendu leur autre maison, qu'ils devront quitter à la fin de cette année, et ils n'ont plus assez d'argent pour acheter un autre terrain. J'espère qu'une bonne âme aura l'extrême gentillesse et correction de leur acheter ce terrain devenu inutile, si ce n'est à l'histoire, pour au moins leur permettre d'habiter quelque part...!!!!

D'autre part, j'ai vu que certains d'entre vous avaient remarqué que des personnes allaient sur le site, et que c'était dangereux...Mais qui n'a pas vu, dans la Somme, les britanniques marcher dans tous les champs possibles et inimaginables afin de retrouver des artéfacts? n'est-ce pas votre spécialité? alors, puisque ce site est rempli d'artéfacts, pourquoi ne pas les chercher???

Les personnes qui ont oeuvré à stopper la construction de cette maison ont le devoir moral d'essayer de faire quelque chose pour ces gens. Allez les voir pour leur expliquer que des personnes bien intentionnées britanniques, qui veulent préserver l'histoire et un site historique ont fait stopper la construction de leur rêve...allez leur dire...je ne suis pas sûre qu'ils le comprennent...et croyez-moi, 90% des français qui vivent dans la région trouve cette situation incroyable, injuste et insupportable :

croyez moi, je n'ai pas de préjugés, mais je suis moi même propriétaire, et j'avoue que je trouve cela honteux. Faites quelque chose pour eux.

La La Poilue si les acheteurs ont des esprits d'affaires ils pourrait obtenir leur dos d'argent (probablement beaucoup plus) et maintenir tout le monde heureux. Ils peuvent examiner la terre, la divisent vers le haut de par le dispositif ou (la petite) taille de la parcelle de terrain - et "vendez un morceau d'histoire" "aux prix accessibles". Car unique personne n'a le tout, la perspective de quiconque bâtiment là-dessus à l'avenir est enlevée - de ce fait préservation de lui à l'avenir. Une activité semblable a lieu en Ecosse (Glencairn) - par lequel ils vendent des parcelles de terrain de terre, par les pieds carrés (approximativement 30cm x 30cm) pour environ 40euros. Pendant qu'un propriétaire foncier en Ecosse vous ont droit au titre "Laird" (ou seigneur) - qui vient avec elle. Je pense que je préférerais à, pour un peu d'euros, "posséderais un morceau de" et préserverais l'histoire - plutôt qu'achetez-vous un titre - que les gens - l'OH et naturellement - quel grand cadeau ?

(Désolé si la grammaire est mauvaise - j'ai employé le babelfish)

La Poilue

If the buyers have business minds they could get their money back (possibly a lot more) and keep everybody happy.

They can survey the land, divide it up either by feature or (small) size of plot - and "sell a piece of history" at "affordable prices".

As no one person has the whole lot, the prospect of anybody building on it in the future is removed - Thus preserving it for the future.

A similar activity takes place in Scotland (Glencairn) - whereby they sell plots of land, by the sq Ft (approx 30cm x 30cm) for about 40euros. As a landowner in Scotland you are entitled to the title "Laird" (or Lord) - which comes with it.

I think that I would prefer to, for a small amount of euros, "own a piece of" and preserve history - rather than buy myself a title - which people do - oh and ofcourse - what a great gift.

[ianw]

It seems quite clear that the buyers of this land might well recover what they paid for it with too much trouble if they could countenance selling to British buyers at a sensible price. They wouldn't have to break it up into sq ft pieces.

Does anyone know how the land lies at the moment, so to speak?

[Paul Reed]

I am a lapsed member of this site, but I would nevertheless hope that the members here would be interested in an update on the situation at the Glory Hole.

From a site preservation point of view sadly the Amiens authority has granted permission that in its opinion the land is now fit to build on, and tomorrow, Wednesday 15th November, the mayor of La Boisselle, M Margotin, is expected to sign the permission through.

It is anticipated that this permission will indeed be granted and thus any objectors will have two months to lodge their objections.

Some of the key figures involved in getting the work stopped in the first place have been alerted, and will be acting on this information. However, from the impression I get locally and in the Somme press, unless money is found to buy the site, the French will think we are not interested enough to put our money where our mouths are, and the site will be developed: and possibly lead to similar development in other areas.

If I have any further news I will post it here.

[Roy Evans]

I am a lapsed member of this site, but I would nevertheless hope that the members here would be interested in an update on the situation at the Glory Hole.

From a site preservation point of view sadly the Amiens authority has granted permission that in its opinion the land is now fit to build on, and tomorrow, Wednesday 15th November, the mayor of La Boisselle, M Margotin, is expected to sign the permission through.

It is anticipated that this permission will indeed be granted and thus any objectors will have two months to lodge their objections.

Some of the key figures involved in getting the work stopped in the first place have been alerted, and will be acting on this information. However, from the impression I get locally and in the Somme press, unless money is found to buy the site, the French will think we are not interested enough to put our money where our mouths are, and the site will be developed: and possibly lead to similar development in other areas.

If I have any further news I will post it here.

Paul,

Really good to hear from you again, even if the news is not good.

Roy

[Guest tafski]

pals

i believe this to be the tip of the iceburg whats next ??? loughnar crater used a s a land fill??

bruce

[ianw]

This seems a bit of a dilemma. I have got the impression - maybe mistakenly?- that the French owner would only sell to the British at an inflated price. This smacks of holding us all to ransom. Of course, if no Brit(s) comes up with the money then it proves we don't care enough !

Bruce - I think we can say with certainty that Lochnagar is safe. I wonder if the purchase price for this piece of land was over the top at the time. Whether it was or not, thank the lord it was bought.

[PBI]

pals

i believe this to be the tip of the iceburg whats next ??? loughnar crater used a s a land fill??

bruce

Like the Mine craters at Loos...used a place to Dump Rubbish.

[Paul Reed]

Thank you all for your response.

Ian - to an extent you are right. The value of the land is high enough; as we have stressed its important, any sale may attract a high price and as you rightly imply, if we cannot come up with the money, the French media (and perhaps others) will simply imply it couldn't have been that important to us in the first place.

A dilemma indeed.

[Desmond7]

There are a number of areas of the country which have historical links to this part of the battlefield. Newcastle seems to be one. Anyone have others? It would seem sensible to publicise this in the media most local to those areas to ascertain if there is interest in preserving what should be a site of interest to them.

I could have said a 'site soaked with the blood of their ancestors' but that's for the PR campaign.

We all know what we are talking about here. IT could be the thin end of a progressive wedge and sometimes progress ain't a good thing. Those who forget their past have no future .. someone said.

It may not work.. it may work.

[Guest tafski]

Pals

as those who went before us and paid the ultimate sacrifice ,let us STAND TOO as i have stated before this well maybe the tip of the ice burg what will be next ?,badger yer MPs your local press, anything which might help

would hate to see historical and areas of scientific intrest and world heritage sites be made available to the highest bidders, what next a Mc donalds at mametz , high wood , houseing estate, deville wood ,???industrial estates are already being built on battlefield sites

great grandfathers, great uncles, the youth of the day fought for more than this , i say no more

bruce

[Chris Noble]

If this is progress, you can keep it.

This is a major development. Where's it going to all end as Tafski has said.

Very sad day indeed.

Chris.

[chris mccarthy]

Surely the freedom for the French to do what they wanted with their land was exactly what our, " great grandfathers, great uncles, the youth of the day fought for" ?

[Chris Noble]

Hi Ram.

Yes i agree totally with your comment. On the other hand, have you considered that the site of the Glory Hole is basically a war grave containing the bodies of Frenchmen aswell as English and German dead.

Not only is this a considerable factor, in my humble opinion of leaving the site alone (it has been wired off for a considerable number of years i do believe), this site is one of the most tangible remains of the Tunnelling war on the Western Front. If, and God forbid this development of the site happens, the least the French authorities could do, is sanction a thorough archaelogical investigation of the site. And, just too add, on a Civil Engineering point, lets hope, if they do decide to build on the site, they have alot of concrete. Check Simons research Ram, here's the link;

http://freespace.virgin.net/simon.jones87/...lleContents.htm

Regards, Chris.

[DaveNich]

Hi Paul

A very sad day if the Mayor of La Boisselle signs the document. If the Amiens authority allows building in such a location what will it mean for the future for other sites? The French media and local people should be supporting the protection of the site! They are very happy to take the money of visiting tourists to the area.

As Bruce and Desmond state more people need to be informed of the decision, supported with stories in the British Press.

Keep us informed Paul.

Regards

David

[Guest mruk]

From what I have read so far, this seems like a case of emotional and moral blackmail on the part of the French authorities and the grubby little mercenary who is holding peoples' thoughts and feelings to ransom. Does anyone know what the legal implications are, and whether any action can be taken against the owner of the land for a temporary [if not permanent] respite? Apart from bowing to his extortionate demands, that is?

Regards

Dave

[Paul Reed]

Dave as I understand it, if permission is given, which it now has, work can commence.

I have just been informed that a 'survey' of the site was made by the local authorities and a few bits of barbed wire and one unexploded 18-pounder HE found. On the basis of that the site was declared 'safe'. No GPR was used, and I am not sure if they had seen Simon Jones suggestion that not only tunnel remains will exist beneath the site, but there is a possibility that ammonal may still be there.

Other than that, I have no further news.

[Guest mruk]

Many Thanks for the update Paul

Kind Regards,

Dave

[Chris_Baker]

I drove past the site at the weekend - at a glance it seemed that a considerable amount of digging with a JCB or similar machinery has already been done, at the "Lochnagar" end near the houses.

[Paul Reed]

I drove past the site at the weekend - at a glance it seemed that a considerable amount of digging with a JCB or similar machinery has already been done, at the "Lochnagar" end near the houses.

Hi Chris - that's the work which was started, and then stopped after the initial process. It is the owners of that ground which have just had permission restored, and work will be starting again in January unless this question can be resolved; and then following that a whole row of houses will extend from there down towards the Poppy restaurant.

[willy]

The french people have had almost all of the somme battlefields back, areas such as the glory hole are now extremely rare as we know, without doubt it should be protected, but how?.

Time is of the essence here, people we need the media on our side now, and we need to find out the purchase price if we are to succeed here, opinons concerning the owner should be kept out of this what is important now is action and results.

Time is running out fast, the only solution as i see it is to find out a purchase price, and quickly raise the funds somehow, or this very important area will be gone forever.

willy

[Max]

The french people have had almost all of the somme battlefields back,

I do agree that certain elements of the WW1 battlefields should probably be preserved but we have to remember that the land is French, and is owned by the French. To be quite frank statements like the one above do your cause no good whatsoever.

I think that in cases like this a softly softly approach is much more likely to succeed, getting the Daily Mail ranting about the ungrateful French is not going to be productive.

Andy