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Armoured Farmer

South Irish Horse

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Armoured Farmer

:) Dear all,

I am currently compiling a database of all South Irish Horse personnel and have over 2,000 names. Anyone willing to share information that they may have on any man from this regiment would be greatfully appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation.

Armoured Farmer

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Andrew Marshall

Hi Armoured Farmer

Only one from my files so far but a good one (well I think so considering he was the only one listed from Gravesend and the surrounding villages who went into the South Irish Horse, unless you know better)

Grant, William

• Private 5402, 7th Battalion, 16th Irish Division, 49th Brigade (South Irish Horse) Royal Irish Regiment

• Born Shorne, resident of Shorne

• Enlisted Gravesend originally as Private 4011, Royal West Kent Regiment

• Killed in action, ‘France’ Monday 25 March 1918, aged 27

• Military Medal

• Eldest son of William J and Fanny Grant, Shorne House, Shorne

• Panels 30/31 Pozieres War Memorial, Somme, France (no known grave)

• 7th (South Irish Horse) Battalion, Territorial Force, Royal Irish Regiment, 49th Brigade, 16th (Irish) Division, the 16th Division were transferred from the VII Corps to XIX Corps on 25th March, Fifth Army

• The First Battles of the Somme, 1918 (21st March – 5th April, 1918)

• Actions at the Somme Crossings, 24th – 25th March, 1918

• William Grant is the only casualty from this Battalion listed on this day

Regards

Andrew

Below is a photograph of him.

post-385-1136320354.jpg

Edited by Andrew Marshall

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Andrew Marshall

Additional information

• Born Shorne, 24 March 1891

• Attended Shorne school (admission number 977, 30 June 1895)

• Resident of Shorne (‘Smith Street’ in 1895, Hope Cottage in 1901)

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Ciaran Byrne

Can you confirm that the South Irish Horse were stationed with 3rd Cavalry Brigade prior to WWI. I have only seen this ever mentioned once and was wondering if it was incorrect.

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carninyj

This may be of interest:

CAMERON, David, 25101, Private, 7 Royal Irish Regiment (formerly 3151 South Irish Horse). Died of wounds December 17, 1917. Buried Tincourt New British Cemetery, Somme. Aged 26, eldest son of Wm. and Margaret Cameron, Cardonaghy, Galgorm. Enlisted Antrim, Commorated on tablet in 1st Ahoghill Pres. Church.

Regards

Carninyj

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Armoured Farmer
Can you confirm that the South Irish Horse were stationed with 3rd Cavalry Brigade prior to WWI. I have only seen this ever mentioned once and was wondering if it was incorrect.

Ciaran,

I have one reference to the 3rd cavalry Brigade: -

" "BRITISH REGIMENTS 1914-1918" by Brigadier E.A. James

Naval and Military Press. 5th Edition April 1998. Part I, page 15

SOUTH IRISH HORSE

‘France and Flanders, 1915-18’

4.8.14 Dublin: attached to 3rd Cavalry Brigade. On mobilisation the regiment was split up and the squadrons were employed mainly as divisional cavalry until 1916. After this as corps cavalry and after September 1917 as infantry. Three new squadrons were formed..."

The remainder of the entry is here on our website: -

http://southirishhorse.com/documents/history.htm

Thanks for the question.

Regards

Armoured Farmer

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Armoured Farmer
This may be of interest:

CAMERON, David, 25101, Private, 7 Royal Irish Regiment (formerly 3151 South Irish Horse). Died of wounds December 17, 1917. Buried Tincourt New British Cemetery, Somme. Aged 26, eldest son of Wm. and Margaret Cameron, Cardonaghy, Galgorm. Enlisted Antrim, Commorated on tablet in 1st Ahoghill Pres. Church.

Regards

Carninyj

Dear Carninyj,

Thank you. As you may have guessed, we already had him. The dead are relatively well recorded. We believe him to be one of about 850 or so men dimounted from the two South irish Horse regiments in France and transferred to the Royal Irish Regiment to form a new battalion, the 7th (South Irish Horse), Royal irish Regiment.

See the following: -

http://southirishhorse.com/documents/history.htm

Thanks again.

Armoured Farmer.

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Armoured Farmer
Hi Armoured Farmer

Only one from my files so far but a good one (well I think so considering he was the only one listed from Gravesend and the surrounding villages who went into the South Irish Horse, unless you know better)

Grant, William

• Private 5402, 7th Battalion, 16th Irish Division, 49th Brigade (South Irish Horse) Royal Irish Regiment

• Born Shorne, resident of Shorne

• Enlisted Gravesend originally as Private 4011, Royal West Kent Regiment

• Killed in action, ‘France’ Monday 25 March 1918, aged 27

• Military Medal

• Eldest son of William J and Fanny Grant, Shorne House, Shorne

• Panels 30/31 Pozieres War Memorial, Somme, France (no known grave)

• 7th (South Irish Horse) Battalion, Territorial Force, Royal Irish Regiment, 49th Brigade, 16th (Irish) Division, the 16th Division were transferred from the VII Corps to XIX Corps on 25th March, Fifth Army

• The First Battles of the Somme, 1918 (21st March – 5th April, 1918)

• Actions at the Somme Crossings, 24th – 25th March, 1918

• William Grant is the only casualty from this Battalion listed on this day

Regards

Andrew

Below is a photograph of him.

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for that. I am not recording men who served in the 7th (SIH) Bn, Royal Irish Regiment unless they had previously served in the South Irish Horse. Technically an argument could be made either way, but had to draw a line at some point.

We believe that about 850 South Irish Horse men and 30 or so Officers were transferred to the Royal Irish Regiment in September 1917.

William Grant appears to have been transferred from the Royal West Kents into the Royal Irish Regiment at some time before February 1918 (Irish Regiments being short of "Irish" manpower as there was no conscription in Ireland). I would guess that he served for a period with the 6th Bn, R Ir Regt. In February 1918 this battlion was dibanded and 312 men were transferred to the 7th bn, which just shows the attrition in an infantry battalion just "line-holding" in the winter of 1917/1918.

These are only guesses.

A brief history of the SIH is here: -

http://southirishhorse.com/documents/history.htm

Thank you again.

Regards

Armoured Farmer

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carninyj

Armoured Farmer,

Thanks for the website reference. Much appreciated.

Regards

Carninyj

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Ciaran Byrne
Ciaran,

I have one reference to the 3rd cavalry Brigade: -

" "BRITISH REGIMENTS 1914-1918" by Brigadier E.A. James

Naval and Military Press. 5th Edition April 1998. Part I, page 15

SOUTH IRISH HORSE

‘France and Flanders, 1915-18’

4.8.14 Dublin: attached to 3rd Cavalry Brigade. On mobilisation the regiment was split up and the squadrons were employed mainly as divisional cavalry until 1916. After this as corps cavalry and after September 1917 as infantry. Three new squadrons were formed..."

The remainder of the entry is here on our website: -

http://southirishhorse.com/documents/history.htm

Thanks for the question.

Regards

Armoured Farmer

Thanks for the reply! The book you mention is where I saw this information too, although it is the only source I have seen that states that the SIH were attached to 3rd Cavalry Brigade.

Edited by Ciaran Byrne

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Armoured Farmer

Ciaran,

From what little I know, I think that the Regiment was administered by 3rd Cav Bde because that was the Cavalry Brigade in Ireland.

How much, if any involvement their officers had with the Curragh Munity I do not know. Gough, the Brigade commander was sacked, but reinstated when the war started.

Regards

Farmer

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Ciaran Byrne

They were not involved in the Curragh Incident, that was the three regiments of 3rd Cavalry Brigade (4H, 5L and 16L) as well as some officers from RHA and Royal Signals.

Do you have any idea which barracks they were based at or in which area?

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Armoured Farmer

The headquarters was listed as Beggars Bush Barracks in Dublin. The 3 squadrons may have had a regional basis, but this is only a guess on my part.

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Ken Devitt

Hi there,

According to Harris, "The new Southern Irish regiment had its headquarters at Artillery Barracks, Limerick, and the distribution of the squadrons as follows:

A squadron. Beggars Bush Barracks, Dublin

B squadron. Artillery Barracks, Limerick.

C squadron. Glen House, Ballyvolane, Cork.

d squadron. Beggars Bush Barracks, Dublin.

Hope this is useful,

Ken

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Armoured Farmer

Ken,

Thanks for that. The reference quoted is for 1902/1903. By 1914 there were 3 Sabre Squadrons, A, B and C. The first Squadron overseas was referred to by the Regiment as "S" or Service Squadron, but was called B by the rest of the Army, as it accompanied A and C Squadrons of the North Irish Horse.

Regards

Armmoured Farmer

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ckop4

A recruiting ad for the South Irish Horse from the 'Cork Examiner' newspaper, 13th January, 1915. Riverstown House, Glanmire is just east of Cork city.

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Armoured Farmer

jpc,

Thanks very much for this!

The poster seems to have worked, we have one Christopher Cornelius Dorgan who enlisted at Riverstown House Co Cork on 14th January, 1915. One of 8 men whom we know enlisted there.

Best Regards

Hugh

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James Blonde

Hallo carninyj :D

If its of interest, I have a South Irish Horse Cap-badge on which the slider is stamped with the name:

P. FLYNN.

Sorry I cant be of more help :(

Connaught Stranger. :D

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Armoured Farmer

Hello Connaught,

Is there any chance that you could post a picture of the badge?

I do know what it looks like and have a few examples, but there are subtle variations in the styles. Thanks,

Hugh

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ckop4

Hugh,

Heres a little list I compiled of some Corkmen in the SIH, taken from various Rolls of Honour in the Cork Examiner of the time:-

ALLISON, J. H., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

DALTON, F., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

DALTON, RICHARD, SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

DALY, J., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork City Regt., Irish National Volunteers, who have volunteered, March 1915.

FINNEGAN, W. A. W., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

HICKEY, PATRICK, SOUTH IRISH HORSE, Mallow

Men awarded certificates of Honour from Mallow Rural Council, Feb 1916.

HOURIGAN, J., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Tramway Co. employees at the front, January 1915.

LANE, JEREMIAH, SOUTH IRISH HORSE, Mallow

Men awarded certificates of Honour from Mallow Rural Council, Feb 1916.

LUDGATE, JOSEPH J., SOUTH IRISH HORSE, Mallow

Men awarded certificates of Honour from Mallow Rural Council, Feb 1916.

MANNING, G., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

MORRIS, C., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

MORRIS, W. V., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

ROYCROFT, S., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

SULLIVAN, MICHAEL, SOUTH IRISH HORSE, Mallow

Men awarded certificates of Honour from Mallow Rural Council, Feb 1916.

SULLIVAN, P., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork City Regt., Irish National Volunteers, who have volunteered March 1915.

Jean

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James Blonde
Hello Connaught,

Is there any chance that you could post a picture of the badge?

I do know what it looks like and have a few examples, but there are subtle variations in the styles. Thanks,

Hugh

Hallo Hugh, :D

pictures of my badge:

post-18479-1175591846.jpg

Front.

Connaught Stranger :D

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James Blonde

post-18479-1175592094.jpg

The Rear:

The badge measures 31mm by 26mm, not including the bottom of the slider.

With the slider 41mm by 42mm.

Connaught Stranger :D

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Armoured Farmer
Hugh,

Heres a little list I compiled of some Corkmen in the SIH, taken from various Rolls of Honour in the Cork Examiner of the time:-

ALLISON, J. H., SOUTH IRISH HORSE

List of Cork Volunteer Training Corps Volunteers, April 1915.

.........

Jean

Jean,

Thanks very much for this.

Can I ask if you have images of the rolls that you could send me?

Thanks again.

Hugh

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Armoured Farmer

Dear Stranger,

Thanks for the images.

Hugh

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ckop4

quote name='Armoured Farmer' date='Apr 3 2007, 10:34 AM' post='657615']

Jean,

Thanks very much for this.

Can I ask if you have images of the rolls that you could send me?

Thanks again.

Hugh

Sorry Hugh, no images with those names but I have 6 other names, with images (and one maybe), that I'll post, all from the 'Cork Examiner,' (CE).

(CE 20/3/1915) – MASTER MICHAEL FITZGIBBON, son of Mr. Daniel Fitzgibbon, South Main Street, Youghal, Co. Cork, (victualler), who has joined the South Irish Horse.

(CE 20/5/1915) - (2) - CORPORAL T. E. FLYNN, South Irish Horse, nephew of Mr. J. C. Flynn, late MP. He volunteered for foreign service at the outbreak of the war. He is now in France.

Jean

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