N.C.O.

[joseph]

Warrants are authorised by the Navy Board or Army Board and signed by the relevant Secretary of state. Commisions are authorised by Royalty and signed by them, you only salute a commision whys that?

Charles

[Muerrisch]

Rank and rank structure within the forces, is an absolute science each person had to know where they stood. The Officers structure was based on the same principle as today and is numbered in the Order of Rank and command this is 1 to 14 Admiral of the Fleet No1 to Midshipman No14.

Flag Officers.

KR & AI 1913 Chapter III section II Article 192

Officers.

Relative Rank of Officers- Navy and Army

KR & AI 1913 Chapter III section II Article 219

Warrant Officers

In the RN are ranked with the officers and are No13 this is also the case with the Army, the equivalent ranks are;

KR & AI 1913 Chapter III section II Article 219

Gunners, Boatswains, Signal Boatswains, Warrant Telegraphist, Chief Master At Arms, Artificer Engineers, Warrant Mechanicians, Warrant Writers, Head Stewards, Instructors in Cookery, Head Schoolmaster, Carpenters, Warrant Electricians, Warrant Armourers.

Equivalent to.

1st Class Staff Sergeant Majors, Army Service Corps Conductors,Army Ordnance Corps Master Gunners 1st Class, 1st Class Staff Sergeant Majors, Army Pay Corps; Army Schoolmasters; but junior to the above ranks.

NCO,

Appointed to or Promoted to a Rank where he can give a lawful order to his subordinates,

The lowest Rank in the RN that can give a lawful order is the Leading Rate in the army a Lance Corporal, not taking into account Special Command which is a separate subject.

Again the Order of Rank and Command is by number and is in KR & AI Appendix XV

The numbers run from No1 to No108 No1 Being the Master at Arms and No 108 being the Boy Servant.

Numbers 1 to 71 are NCO and have the authority to give lawful orders.

Regards Charles

So Commodore is not a Flag rank, much as Brigadier is not a General rank.

[Jon Haslock]

Just thought that I'd throw this into the melting pot and see what comes up!

Sergeant, between corporal and staff sergeant. Origins, medieval, servant or attendant. Serjeant (with a J), is the official title of a sergeant in the Foot Guards (apparently) although I've seen the same spelling used in the context of line regiments (Serjeant G Chapman, 2/6 West Yorks.). My wife's grandfather's paybook lists his rank as Sergeant (with a G), and he was in the Grenadiers. I've heard that the cavalry don't use the word Sergeant (with or without the G or J) because the original meaning of the word demeans the rank.

[truthergw]

Can someone please tell me what a 'non commissioned officer' is ? Many thanks , Steve .

By now, you will know exactly what a N.C.O is and all the little tricky details. As long as you remember to do as you are told by anyone with superior rank or a Military Policeman carrying out his duty, you will lead a happy, peaceful existence with no hassle whatsoever. Cough, cough.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Warrants are authorised by the Navy Board or Army Board and signed by the relevant Secretary of state. Commisions are authorised by Royalty and signed by them, you only salute a commision whys that?

That would be Her/His Majesty’s Secretary of State would it? Nice to know that the monarchy has been on a management course and know how to delegate. I thought the Army Board had some vague connection to the War Office...

I refer you to the advice for all paradoxes: “Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die.”

[joseph]

"That would be Her/His Majesty’s Secretary of State would it? Nice to know that the monarchy has been on a management course and know how to delegate. I thought the Army Board had some vague connection to the War Office..."

I stand to be corrected, have you got any references or maybe a copy of a warrant, for future reference.

Regards Charles

[CarylW]

This topic has answered a lot of questions I wanted to ask and like Di I've found it extremely funny but confusing - I've sort of forgotten what my own name is and lost the will to live since I started reading it

Have questions though. My gt uncle started off WW1 as a Sgt, at the end he was a CSM (post war RSM), so I've learned from this thread that this is Company Sgt Major. What would be different about his duties in the field of battle from Sgt to CSM? I think I've grasped what a Sgt did/does, but what did/does a CSM do? As a CSM he did take part in a battle for which he was later awarded a MC (I know the details of this so please no-one waste their precious time looking it up) So was it common for CSM's to take part in actual combat and not be in Battalion HQ?

Also someone replied to to one of my queries wondering why my gt uncle wasn't commissioned after all of his gallantry awards. Would this be because he was Irish? working class? or neither

Be gentle with me, bearing in mind I know nothing about Army ranks *gulp*

Caryl (I think)

[jmoha]

By now, you will know exactly what a N.C.O is and all the little tricky details. As long as you remember to do as you are told by anyone with superior rank or a Military Policeman carrying out his duty, you will lead a happy, peaceful existence with no hassle whatsoever. Cough, cough.

...or his dog, which as we all know is the brains of the outfit

[Muerrisch]

This topic has answered a lot of questions I wanted to ask and like Di I've found it extremely funny but confusing - I've sort of forgotten what my own name is and lost the will to live since I started reading it

Have questions though. My gt uncle started off WW1 as a Sgt, at the end he was a CSM (post war RSM), so I've learned from this thread that this is Company Sgt Major. What would be different about his duties in the field of battle from Sgt to CSM? I think I've grasped what a Sgt did/does, but what did/does a CSM do? As a CSM he did take part in a battle for which he was later awarded a MC (I know the details of this so please no-one waste their precious time looking it up) So was it common for CSM's to take part in actual combat and not be in Battalion HQ?

Caryl (I think)

CSM very much in the thick of it: right hand man to Company commander, mentor/ father/ sheepdog/ martinet to the men and, if the company was short of subalterns, did duty as an officer when holding trenches: a company always had an 'officer' up and about, fully dressed and visiting the men, checking the outposts, handling alerts etc.

[Bob Bedward]

Please Sir, Why has no one told Mr Crane about 2/Cpl - Cos some one on here told me about them. Are you keeping it from him?

Happy Christmas

[Mark Crame]

CSM very much in the thick of it: right hand man to Company commander, mentor/ father/ sheepdog/ martinet to the men and, if the company was short of subalterns, did duty as an officer when holding trenches: a company always had an 'officer' up and about, fully dressed and visiting the men, checking the outposts, handling alerts etc.

My Great Grandfather was a Serjeant in the 16th Lancers. Sergeant depending on some bits. I never have got to the bottom of it.

[CarylW]

CSM very much in the thick of it: right hand man to Company commander, mentor/ father/ sheepdog/ martinet to the men and, if the company was short of subalterns, did duty as an officer when holding trenches: a company always had an 'officer' up and about, fully dressed and visiting the men, checking the outposts, handling alerts etc.

Thank you Langleybaston . I can see I need to read more. Must have been quite a man, wish I'd known him

Caryl