Medal Collectors

[GWF1967]

4 minutes ago, Simon Tindall said:

look where? thanks

You can post a new topic in the medals section stating which medals you are seeking (you never know, I may have them), or enquire via British Medal Forum. If you have an eBay account you can set a notification to alert you to medals listed to a particular name or Regiment. You can also write a note on the medal index card page on Ancestry, a free trial is possible if you don’t have an account. 

You could contact auction houses and medal dealers and ask them to notify you if the medals come up for sale. 

 A simple search via google may work if they have sold at auction recently, especially if they are to a man with an unusual name/surname. 

 Best of luck. 

[Simon Tindall]

28 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

You can post a new topic in the medals section stating which medals you are seeking (you never know, I may have them), or enquire via British Medal Forum. If you have an eBay account you can set a notification to alert you to medals listed to a particular name or Regiment. You can also write a note on the medal index card page on Ancestry, a free trial is possible if you don’t have an account. 

You could contact auction houses and medal dealers and ask them to notify you if the medals come up for sale. 

 A simple search via google may work if they have sold at auction recently, especially if they are to a man with an unusual name/surname. 

 Best of luck. 

Thank you  His name is JOSEPH TINDALL 63RD SIGNAL COMPANY (RND) RE   SERVICE NUMBERS WERE   853  207466 

[chaz]

I want to tell you a story (M Bygraves)....

my grandfather returned from the trenches with a head wound, by all accounts a bit of a miserable so and so for the rest of his life, he died in 1963 ,I was 4. Mother ( his daughter ) died 2005 dad died 2014, I inherited the "brown briefcase". Inside is granddads swb , his shrapnel and service book along with medal ribbons, but no medals. I've collected medals since 1975, and since having a house in France have visited two of granddads brothers graves. I've looked and asked for the medals for the past many years since becoming aware of their service...

Last week, I got a tip off on the BMF, and today am now the custodian of my great uncle Alfred's plaque, scroll and trio, great uncle Fred's plaque, scroll and trio and great uncle Percy's trio ( he returned ), had to pay a bit for them, but thanks to our works bonus 

last month , the world feels a better place. Now have to find granddads medals. Their fifth brother who also lies in France ,has family  so, hopefully, one day I can get all 5 brothers reunited along with their cousin ( lies in Terlincthun) again.

 

moral of the story, never give up, just keep asking.

[58 Div Mule]

1 hour ago, Simon Tindall said:

Thank you  His name is JOSEPH TINDALL 63RD SIGNAL COMPANY (RND) RE   SERVICE NUMBERS WERE   853  207466 

Well here’s a starter.
He has a Medal Index Card and the Royal Engineers Medal Roll suggests the he was issued a British War and Victory Medal. So they may be out there somewhere.

Good luck.

 

58 DM.

[Simon Tindall]

Chaz that’s a brilliant story and I will keep looking. I also have to find my other great grandfathers medals also he was a petty officer RN but one at a time until I learn and understand where to look.  Thanks for the story and good luck with your quest  take care 
 

brilliant story Chaz and thanks I will keep looking and also need to locate my other great grandfathers Medals  Percy Stockley as he was a petty officer I believe in the RN and may well of been on one of the ships that evacuated the soldiers from Gallipoli. What a story that would be both great grandparents in the same theatre of war before they were my great grand parents 
thanks again 

9 hours ago, 58 Div Mule said:

Well here’s a starter.
He has a Medal Index Card and the Royal Engineers Medal Roll suggests the he was issued a British War and Victory Medal. So they may be out there somewhere.

Good luck.

 

58 DM.

I believe he had the star as well as served in Gallipoli and France but not sure what the eligibility is 

[wandererpaul]

207466 Joseph Tindall RE has surviving records; 13 pages are here.

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=VSb2&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=1219&gsfn=Joseph&gsln=Tindall&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&gskw=207466&gskw_x=1&qh=be1c88c5a05ba169047fd97268c23909&new=1&rank=1&uidh=ea7&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=1891377&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=e0497ebb832cfe6f74efb685847930b2
 

He joined Base Depot Etaples 28/6/1916.

 

He was in Gallipoli, from 1/3/1915 to 8/1/1916. With Royal Naval Division (E). 

 

so he should be on the 1914/15 Star Medal Roll for Royal Naval Division.

 

the RE 1914/15 medal rolls here

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41804_626640_12031-00107?pid=4147250&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26h%3D4147250%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DVSb10%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=VSb10&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.73519892.703794246.1588150604-20035049.1588150604

 

shows his name, and other names, crossed out because they were given their Star under the Admiralty medal rolls.

 

his MIC only shows BW and VM medal entitlement, as his Star will be on RND rolls.

Edited 29 April , 2020 by wandererpaul

[RaySearching]

Joseph Tindall's 

Navy service record can be downloaded for Free during the pandemic  from the national archives

 FROM HERE   (Link) 

His discharge documents  can be found on Ancestry HERE   (link) if a subscriber

 

just had a quick look on his discharge docs  on Jan 17th 1919 Joseph lost three teeth through being kicked by a mule while shoeing

 

Ray

 

edit   Wanderpaul types faster than me

Edited 29 April , 2020 by RaySearching

[RaySearching]

14 minutes ago, wandererpaul said:

He was in Gallipoli, from 1/3/1915 to 8/1/1916.

 

so he should be on the 1914/15 Star Medal Roll.

 

His medal  entitlement can be found

on the UK Naval medal and award rolls

on Ancestry HERE     (medals issued by the Navy)

 

 

Ray

[wandererpaul]

16 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

 

His medal  entitlement can be found

on the UK Naval medal and award rolls

on Ancestry HERE     (medals issued by the Navy)

 

 

Ray

V. B. by WO (War Office). Ties it all in.... 👍

[GWF1967]

12 hours ago, chaz said:

I want to tell you a story (M Bygraves)....

my grandfather returned from the trenches with a head wound, by all accounts a bit of a miserable so and so for the rest of his life, he died in 1963 ,I was 4. Mother ( his daughter ) died 2005 dad died 2014, I inherited the "brown briefcase". Inside is granddads swb , his shrapnel and service book along with medal ribbons, but no medals. I've collected medals since 1975, and since having a house in France have visited two of granddads brothers graves. I've looked and asked for the medals for the past many years since becoming aware of their service...

Last week, I got a tip off on the BMF, and today am now the custodian of my great uncle Alfred's plaque, scroll and trio, great uncle Fred's plaque, scroll and trio and great uncle Percy's trio ( he returned ), had to pay a bit for them, but thanks to our works bonus 

last month , the world feels a better place. Now have to find granddads medals. Their fifth brother who also lies in France ,has family  so, hopefully, one day I can get all 5 brothers reunited along with their cousin ( lies in Terlincthun) again.

 

moral of the story, never give up, just keep asking.

You may have exhausted your share of luck for now Chaz,  but buy yourself a lottery ticket just in case.  

[Simon Tindall]

11 hours ago, wandererpaul said:

207466 Joseph Tindall RE has surviving records; 13 pages are here.

 

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=VSb2&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=1219&gsfn=Joseph&gsln=Tindall&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&gskw=207466&gskw_x=1&qh=be1c88c5a05ba169047fd97268c23909&new=1&rank=1&uidh=ea7&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=0&h=1891377&recoff=&ml_rpos=1&queryId=e0497ebb832cfe6f74efb685847930b2
 

He joined Base Depot Etaples 28/6/1916.

 

He was in Gallipoli, from 1/3/1915 to 8/1/1916. With Royal Naval Division (E). 

 

so he should be on the 1914/15 Star Medal Roll for Royal Naval Division.

 

the RE 1914/15 medal rolls here

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41804_626640_12031-00107?pid=4147250&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26h%3D4147250%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DVSb10%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=VSb10&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.73519892.703794246.1588150604-20035049.1588150604

 

shows his name, and other names, crossed out because they were given their Star under the Admiralty medal rolls.

 

his MIC only shows BW and VM medal entitlement, as his Star will be on RND rolls.

Wandererpaul your a legend thank you

[Simon Tindall]

11 hours ago, RaySearching said:

Joseph Tindall's 

Navy service record can be downloaded for Free during the pandemic  from the national archives

 FROM HERE   (Link) 

His discharge documents  can be found on Ancestry HERE   (link) if a subscriber

 

just had a quick look on his discharge docs  on Jan 17th 1919 Joseph lost three teeth through being kicked by a mule while shoeing

 

Ray

 

edit   Wanderpaul types faster than me

Thanks Ray  yes he did lose some teeth   he grew up in a workhouse and later died during ww2 as a worker on the railways   lucky in some ways and un lucky in others

one thing I cant locate is where he went after the work house around 1890s to when he re joined the Navy and went into ww1   because he re joined he must of served from around the age of 14   possibly trained as a sailor on the TS Exmouth which did have lads from his workhouse (Hanwell)   wonder if he served abroad during the late 1800s early 1900s 

Interesting life though  

[DFletcher]

I know it’s a long shot, but I’m trying to locate my great grandfather’s ww1 medals, which were sold by a relative a number of years ago. The medals are the British War Medal, Victory Medal, 1914 Star & Meritorious Medal. His name was Henry Wood (service number 62008) and he served in the Royal Field Artillery from 1910 - 1922.

[Jim Strawbridge]

On 29/04/2020 at 21:23, Simon Tindall said:

Thanks Ray  yes he did lose some teeth   he grew up in a workhouse and later died during ww2 as a worker on the railways   lucky in some ways and un lucky in others

one thing I cant locate is where he went after the work house around 1890s to when he re joined the Navy and went into ww1   because he re joined he must of served from around the age of 14   possibly trained as a sailor on the TS Exmouth which did have lads from his workhouse (Hanwell)   wonder if he served abroad during the late 1800s early 1900s 

Interesting life though  

 

Service records show he was from Wandsworth. Could he have been the Mark Joseph Tyndall who in the 1911 census is living at 3 Lothair Street, Battersea with his elderly mother and an elderly lodger? He was single, a house agent's porter and was born in Wandsworth. Just a thought but with an extra first name and a spelling difference in the surname it might explain why you have been unable to find him between the workhouse and 1915.

[Simon Tindall]

3 hours ago, Jim Strawbridge said:

 

Service records show he was from Wandsworth. Could he have been the Mark Joseph Tyndall who in the 1911 census is living at 3 Lothair Street, Battersea with his elderly mother and an elderly lodger? He was single, a house agent's porter and was born in Wandsworth. Just a thought but with an extra first name and a spelling difference in the surname it might explain why you have been unable to find him between the workhouse and 1915.

Hi Jim 

interesting. I believe he was living in Wheatstone Hendon prior to the war around 1906 to 1913. However it’s the time between possible discharge from the work house I’m guessing around 1895 ish to around 1905-6 when my grandfather (also Joseph just to confuse things further) was born and Joseph seniors wife Lillian cain died 

he was your right born in Wandsworth lived in newington and later hanwell work house between discharge and the birth of my grands father is actually the mystery   

 

 

 

[Simon Tindall]

To add my reasoning for possibly an earlier career prior to ww1 in the navy was he joined the RND   Would that possibly be due to previously serving  in the Navy ? 

[horatio2]

8 minutes ago, Simon Tindall said:

Would that possibly be due to previously serving  in the Navy ? 

There is no trace of former RN or Marines service; nor would such service give a greater chance of selection as a sapper in the RNDE in WW1. In fact it would be more likely to direct him towards his former RN branch.

[Simon Tindall]

15 hours ago, horatio2 said:

There is no trace of former RN or Marines service; nor would such service give a greater chance of selection as a sapper in the RNDE in WW1. In fact it would be more likely to direct him towards his former RN branch.

Ok thanks. I was mistaken to believe the RND was made up of sailors serving and reserves without a vessel to serve on 

[horatio2]

2 hours ago, Simon Tindall said:

Ok thanks. I was mistaken to believe the RND was made up of sailors serving and reserves without a vessel to serve on 

Not entirely mistaken. The  drafting into the RND battalions of serving RN ratings and RM ORs, together with excess reservists of the Royal Fleet Reserve, RNR and RNVR (totalling some 7,500 men in the two naval brigades) was largely completed in late August 1914. Separate recruiting of men into the RNDE, from mid-September did not draw on this naval pool but took recruits from civilian life. By the time of Joseph TINDALL's recruitment iinto the RNDE in January 1915 the drafting of pre-war reservists into the RND was long over and most RND recruits came from wartime RNVR and other volunteers.

[Simon Tindall]

Thanks Horatio 

again great in depth information very much appreciated 

[cazack]

I find this a most interesting topic and seems very emotive for those who support and those who are against it.

I have been collecting Medals for about 15 years, I started with Soviet then migrated to WW1 and British and New Zealand medals over different periods, along with New Zealand  gain Badges

With Soviet awards they where often sold by relatives when the Soviet Union collapsed purely for money as well many hated what they stood for, now Russian collectors are paying silly money to get them back. So in this instance it was the relatives or owners of the medals that in part created the market for Soviet awards and I know a couple of "collectors" who  purely brought to make money with little of no interest in the history of the recipient or his actions. These type of people are what I would deem as a business opportunist which I think is no different to many business we deal with everyday. Do I agree, I don't have  any option one way or the other regards to them if they brought the items honestly they helped fill a gap in the market by providing collectors to buy awards

With regards to British and New Zealand medals again like many comments here they become available to the market for various reasons,family lines have died out,  people don't want them of have no interest for various reasons (don't like what they stand for,  anti - war views, never meet the relative, financial opportunity or needs etc.). As a result of medals been offered for sale through what ever avenue it allows us as collectors to purchases them for what ever our personal reason is and to research when possible further the medals and give some history to them to be preserved for future generations which I think is the best we can do to remember the sacrifice those before us made. 

I deal with a site in New Zealand that I list my NZEF medals with to see if they can be reunited to direct relatives if they want them, its a service that can see if agreements ca be made between 2 parties to reunited medals back to direct family relatives but only after strict and stringent checks are  made to ensure that the claimant is true and not some dealer. If a deal is done the money and medals go to the moderator then sent on from there. and at no time is any personal information given to either party. This is a great service as the current owner would have financially invested to but the medals so if returning them should be compensated.

I don't think relatives should be able to demand the return of medals unless they are proven to have been stolen as they have at some stage in there live been sold for financial gain by a previous family member. I know of one case a person identified a BWM belonging to his great uncle and he demanded it be return to him at no cost to him and that the current owner should just give it to him. The owner offered to sell it back but he refused and threatened to take h to the police, but the owner called his bluff and it never went further. Th worse thing was it was a cousin that sold it!!!

To be honest as collectors in general I don't think the reason and what we collect is any different to any other collector who may collect art work, paintings, postcards etc the all belonged to someone previous who did not require or want them any further. As medal collectors we need to make a conscious choice on where we buy our medals from; if people buy them through questionable sellers rather than a trusted and moral dealer that's on them

As long as medals and other military items are brought and sold honestly should we question if it is right or wrong to collect historical items and preserve them for the future

I have my Grandfathers WW1 trio, my Fathers WW2 1939/ 45, Aircrew Europe, Italy Star, Defence Medal, War Medal, my own service medals which in turn will go to my son who is a serving member in the Army who has his own which he said will be passed on to his children when he has them. This is not collecting in this instance but preserving family history,

 

C

[Valentine Thomson]

Saw this thread and couldn’t help but comment.

Only this week, through this very forum, I had my Great Grandfather’s British War Medal returned to me by a collector – it was a medal I had been seeking for many years, to reunite it with his MM and VM. I didn’t even need to ask, in fact I merely sent some information regarding the war service of my GG, which seemed to be causing some confusion on the forum – even if the medal wasn’t mine, I wanted to make sure the facts were straight – and the chap immediately offered it to me for what he had paid. I thought it was a generous and kind act, and one which he was under no obligation to render. Hopefully, I did my part by sending him a little more than he asked for, just to show my gratitude. I feel compelled to say that medal collectors, in my experience, will go to great lengths to get medals back to families, often at a disadvantage to themselves and notwithstanding the fact that it was usually the families who sold the medals in the first place.

Sometimes it doesn’t work out. I found that another ancestor’s DSM, trio and Naval LSGC group had been sold at auction in 1998. I contacted Dix Noonan Webb, who made some discrete enquiries on my behalf. The owner chose not to sell them, as is his (or her) absolute right. Do I have the right to feel cheated or petulant about that? Not in my opinion. I know that the medals are extant, that they are prized and that one day they will almost certainly come back on the market.

As for donating medals to a regimental museum, I find this a tricky one. It has been the case that museums and other institutions have found themselves struggling in recent years, and have sold previously donated medals to raise cash – in one instance this even involved selling a VC. I understand the need, but I’m not comfortable with that. I also feel that people donate medals to museums in order to keep the story of the man or woman who earned them alive. Unfortunately, these medals cannot all be displayed, and even though I think my Great Grandfather’s newly reunited MM and pair is a wonder to behold, the regimental museum probably has hundreds of groups like it, most of them locked away for safe keeping. As I have no children, I would rather see my medals go to a collector, who will research them, prize them and possibly display them – almost certainly more than a museum would.

Finally, I have to say a word about dealers, who have been described in this thread as “parasites”. I think that is harsh. I have bought medals and militaria from dealers and auction houses, and therefore I would be a hypocrite to call them parasites. Some are better than others, of course, but the fact is that medals and militaria are antiques, and I for one am very pleased to see that this has become a very popular area of collecting. It means the subject is still alive. Would you really want to go back to the 1970s, when young lads could collect memorial plaques for pocket-money prices, rather like collecting football cards? I don’t think that lends the subject any dignity at all. Unfortunately, human nature shows us time and time again that if you put a high value on something, people will respect it more.

Valentine

[Jim Strawbridge]

Valentine - Well said.

[58 Div Mule]

I’ll second that. I know of a number of dealers and collectors who have actively sought to reunite families with their medals.

As for museums, don’t bother!

58 DM.

[Colleen Clancy]

Hi I would like to know where I can find pictures of medals ?

just to see what they look like and as grandfathers and grandfathers I have not seen .

Thanks ☘️