RSM Collier MC DCM Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars

[ChrisC]

I found the following in CWGC and could do with any information anyone can come up with.

Name: COLLIER, ARTHUR

Rank: Regimental Serjeant Major

Regiment: Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars

Age: 45

Date of Death: 01/06/1917

Service No: 3513

Awards: MC, DCM

Son of Henry and Elizabeth Collier, of Diton Marsh, Westbury, Wilts.

2. 204.

Cemetery: HENLEY-ON-THAMES CEMETERY

He's definitely a relation - my great great uncle. I'm tring to find records of his service. He must have been a pre war regular given his age and decorations?

Also:

COLLIER, DOUGLAS SIDNEY

Rank: Private

Regiment: 1st Bn.Somerset Light Infantry

Age: 19

Date of Death: 04/10/1917

Service No: 28159

Additional information: Son of Mrs. Frances Collier, of Dilton Marsh, Westbury, Wilts.

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 41 to 42 and 163A.

Cemetery: TYNE COT MEMORIAL

I believe that his mother must have been related to RSM Arthur. I've tried a few geneaology sites but not a lot of luck.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Chris

[ian turner]

Chris,

Have you looked up SDGW? It shows:

RSM Arthur:

Born Astbury

Enlisted Warminster

Resident York

Died at Home (from which I gather he died in the UK from illness or accident, rather than wounds).

Pvte Douglas:

Born Dilton Marsh

Enlisted Towbridge Wilts

Resident Dilton Marsh

KIA

Have you looked up the 1901 census, and previous 1891 and 1881 census? Might give family details and an avenue to explore. Otherwise you will have to try Kew for the army service records.

Ian

[enoch beard]

walker states he won his dcm in the boer war and then a bar to dcm in the first world war.

enoch

[ChrisC]

Thanks guys. Unfortunately Ian I don't have access to SDGW. I have tried to check cencues via the Mormon's site but apart from finding out that Arthur was born in 1872, not much. How would I go about discovering more about pre WW1 service?

Enoch thanks, but who is "walker"? And can I get information on the specific acts for which he was decorated? Would you happen to know where the MC came from?

Thanks for your help already - I only fond this out by trawling through all the Colliers on CWGC and recognised the na,mmes of Arthur's parents which I already had from the 1871 cencus - thanks to gord from the USA.

[ian turner]

Chris,

If you are really serious about tracking them down, join Genes Reunited - good genealogical website. There are many helpful folk on there who will react to a lookup request for census info. It works in a similar way to this site. For army service records, ask on here, go to Kew and look yourself, or pay a researcher.

Good hunting,

Ian

[ChrisC]

Thanks Ian. I'll try looking up the MIC for a start.

C

[PPCLI]

Hi Chris,

According to FreeBMD (freebmd.rootsweb.com):

A Frances Dew married either Sidney (or Philip) Collier, 3rd qtr. 1895, at Westbury.

You can't be definite about which spouse goes with which on this site, but going from the soldier's name of Douglas Sidney, I'd side with her marrying Sidney. There are a few Sidneys in the 1881 census, I don't know enough about the family or the area to narrow it down.

Frances and Douglas are both present on the 1901 census at Dilton Marsh. There are Pals on the forum who have access to this information, perhaps one of them will be able to download the full household at the time.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Stebie9173]

It was Sidney. Hang on you lot, I'm checking!!

Patience chaps...

Steve.

[ChrisC]

Well guys, i've got the MICs for both Arthur & Douglas. I'd put them on if I knew how to upload a pdf file!

In the 1871 cencus there were 2 branches of the Collier family living next door to one another in Dilton Marsh but it appears that by 1881 there was only Arthur's parents and 6 kids. Five of them additional to those listed in 1871!! Blimey - that's what they did before TV. No Sidney or Philip among Henry & Elizabeth's lot though.

[Stebie9173]

Chris. It's looking like no at the moment having worked my way back to the 1861 Census on Douglas' side and no trace of names that seem to fit. I'll compile some results and post later...

Steve.

[ChrisC]

Thanks Steve

It seems on the 1871 census there are 2 lots of Colliers.

My GGGF Henry, wife Elizabeth and 6 kids. RSM Arthur came along in 1872.

The next lot seems to be Simon? and his wife Jane and 7 kids plus the 76 year old mother. Must have been fun

It looks like a trip to Kew and the FRC is in order.

[Stebie9173]

Here are the Census entries for the two branches Collier. There doesn't seem to be any crossover.

They definitely didn't have a TV between them...

The only real doubt is that Douglas is listed as Douglas N, but date of birth, place and mother all fit...

Steve.

[ChrisC]

great work Steve. interesting, my GGF Walter William isn't listed but he's there on my scan of the '71 cencus - odd

I know what it is - Oliver, listed as 9 years old in '71 has Walters birth date.

And neither of the 2 other branches is the one listed next to Henry's lot in '71 in Dilton Marsh.

You know... I'll have to take a trip down there now!

[Stebie9173]

Oh, BBBBBBB

Oops! I had a spreadsheet crash in the middle of that. Missed putting one (or two, Charley as well...) back on. I feel a right Charley...

Ahem.

Reposted the image.

You just can't get the staff!!!

Steve.

[ChrisC]

And now... for a laugh...I shall attempt to post Arthur's MIC.

it seems to show he wasn't in France from the very beginning.

[PPCLI]

Hi Chris,

Arthur has another MIC:

Collier MIC

Staff Serjeant Major A. Collier, 3513, Queen's Own Oxfordshire Hussars

Maybe this will show an earlier entry?

He also has another MIC, possibly a DCM going from medals mentioned in your first post:

Collier MM/DCM MIC

Squadron Serjeant Major A. Collier, 3513, Hussars

Stuart

[Stebie9173]

So presumably if he was with the "Queer Objects on Horseback" when he died, then the Corps of Hussars could well have been his first Regiment.

But which unit?

Anyway. An online exhibition by Oxford County Council:

http://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/museums/yeomanry/yeomindx.htm

Steve.

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The Walker referred to is

Walker, R.W.: ‘Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1914-1920’

As he won a DCM in the Boer War there is also

ABBOTT P.E.: ‘Recipients Of The Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1909’

[ChrisC]

Now why couldn't I find those - no...don't answer

[Stebie9173]

From the London Gazette - 11-3-1916 (published 10-3-1916)

Clasp to original DCM from Boer War.

The undermentioned have been awarded a Clasp to their Distinguished Conduct Medal for subsequent acts of conspicuous gallantry :—

3513 Squadron Serjeant-Major A. Collier, 18th Hussars (attached Permanent Staff, Oxfordshire Hussars, T.F.).

For conspicuous gallantry and devotion; he brought in six wounded men from in front of the trenches under a heavy fire, the men having been left out from the previous day's engagement. He has invariably shown great bravery and coolness under fire, and set a fine example to all ranks.

(The Distinguished Conduct Medal was awarded for service in the South African War, vide London Gazette dated 19th April, 1901, page 2707.)

Original announcement:

London Gazette 14-1-1916 (Published 11-1-1916)

3513 Squadron Serjeant-Major A. Collier, 18th Hussars (attached Permanent Staff, Oxfordshire Hussars, T.F.).

Steve.

[ChrisC]

Steve

Do you know if I can get a copy of that or is there a link I can go to?

Per ardua, I don't suppose either of those books has a photograph?

[Stebie9173]

The link is the London Gazette Online.

The Search engine can be a bit of a swine but it's fantastic for finding medals, promotions, etc.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

Go to the WW1 section.

Search for "A. Collier". The dates shown on the search are the published dates.

Steve.

[Robert Dunlop]

There is a regimental history on the 'Oxfordshire Hussars in the Great War 1914-1918' (ISBN 1843425424), available via Naval & Military Press.

Robert

[Stebie9173]

The actual links to the Gazette if you need them

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

He's not described as "A. Collier MC" so presumably his MC followed later.

Steve.

[Stebie9173]

And for good luck:

London Gazette 19-4-1901:

The King has further been pleased to approve of the grant of the Medal for Distinguished Conduct in the Field to the undermentioned Soldiers in recognition of their gallant conduct during the operations in South Africa :—

18th Hussars.

3513 Lance-Sergeant Collier.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...&selHonourType=

Steve.