Walter Davison. Unable to locate Grandfathers WW1 infomation.

[Trish22c]

Good afternoon, thank you for adding me to the group. 

My grandad was in the Merchant Navy in 1914, but then in the 1919 peace parade in Sunderland he looks to be in a senior Army uniform. I've tried various places to find his information, but if honest, I don't really know what I'm doing. 

His name is Walter (Harding) Davison born in Sunderland 2nd Nov 1894 and died 7th Aug 1978 in Sunderland. 

(He has a nephew born 1905 with the same name from his older brother Robert).

I have attached his Merchant Navy record, and the picture of him in the peace parade some years later. Any advice would be really appreciated. 

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Trish22c said:

My grandad was in the Merchant Navy in 1914, but then in the 1919 peace parade in Sunderland he looks to be in a senior Army uniform.

Trish,

Welcome to GWF

1 hour ago, Trish22c said:

Mercantile Marine might be one for our member @MerchantOldSalt

1 hour ago, Trish22c said:

To my eye the cap badge is potentially Royal Engineers and I think I see three chevrons on his visible arm making this man a Sergeant.  And wearing a 'trio' of a 1914/1914-15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal

• What is the provenance of this photograph?
• Who made the identification? [How sure of it are they/you?]

M

[Trish22c]

50 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Trish,

Welcome to GWF

Mercantile Marine might be one for our member @MerchantOldSalt

To my eye the cap badge is potentially Royal Engineers and I think I see three chevrons on his visible arm making this man a Sergeant.  And wearing a 'trio' of a 1914/1914-15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal

• What is the provenance of this photograph?
• Who made the identification? [How sure of it are they/you?]

M

Hi

This is a copy of a family photograph, I'm 100% sure it's my Grandad. My mam(His daughter) and his son are the only two to hold copies. It's thought to have come from his parents and my mams brother getting her a copy of the original. I have got this also, from Ancestry. Not sure if him or not. 

Ps, thank you for the welcome and taking the time to reply. 😊

Edited 17 March by Trish22c
Update on info

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, Trish22c said:

This is a copy of a family photograph, I'm 100% sure it's my Grandad. My mam(His daughter) and his son are the only two to hold copies. It's thought to have come from his parents and my mams brother getting her a copy of the original. 

OK, thanks for that.

Earlier I only found one MIC for a Walter DAVISON ... Walter C DAVISON, Royal Engineers - and he seems to have only got a 'pair', BWM & VM which doesn't seem to suit the photo.

The identification of the cap badge seems vital to helping us move on.  Perhaps one for the likes of @FROGSMILE @Michelle Young @CorporalPunishment ???

So, now to get picky = Please might it be possible to get a high resolution scan of the original photo?

M

[Michelle Young]

I would say RE is a decent shout. 

[Trish22c]

Just now, Matlock1418 said:

OK, thanks for that.

Earlier I only found one MIC for a Walter DAVISON ... Walter C DAVISON, Royal Engineers - and he seems to have only got a 'pair', BWM & VM which doesn't seem to suit the photo.

The identification of the cap badge seems vital to helping us move on.  Perhaps one for the likes of @FROGSMILE @Michelle Young @CorporalPunishment ???

So, now to get picky = Please might it be possible to get a high resolution scan of the original photo?

M

I can scan it when I get to work on Tuesday if that would help

[Matlock1418]

Just now, Trish22c said:

I can scan it when I get to work on Tuesday if that would help

Please/Thank you - I feel a decent scan would likely help.

M

[Trish22c]

Just now, Michelle Young said:

I would say RE is a decent shout. 

Thank you. It's been a huge puzzle for about 2 years since I started dojng my family tree. All his children have passed away, no idea where his medals are. 

[Matlock1418]

OK, meantime, some more ideas for you to look out for:

• 1911 Census for an address
• 1918 and/or 1919 Absent Voters List(s) [I guess presumably likely in Sunderland area]
• 1921 Census for an address
• If any of his children were born during the war - their Birth Certificates as his occupation should be shown and may perhaps give military details

Wishing you good fortune!

M

Edited 17 March by Matlock1418
typo

[FROGSMILE]

32 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

OK, thanks for that.

Earlier I only found one MIC for a Walter DAVISON ... Walter C DAVISON, Royal Engineers - and he seems to have only got a 'pair', BWM & VM which doesn't seem to suit the photo.

The identification of the cap badge seems vital to helping us move on.  Perhaps one for the likes of @FROGSMILE @Michelle Young @CorporalPunishment ???

So, now to get picky = Please might it be possible to get a high resolution scan of the original photo?

M

Yes it’s RE, the officers collar badges match that too.

[Trish22c]

11 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

OK, meantime, some more ideas for you to look out for:

• 1911 Census for an address
• 1918 and/or 1919 Absent Voters List(s) in [I guess presumably likely in Sunderland area]
• 1921 Census for an address
• If any of his children were born during the war - their Birth Certificates as his occupation should be shown and may perhaps give military details

Wishing you good fortune!

M

Hi, In 1911 he was 16, and was a Cartman, he had a son, but out of wedlock in 1920 so his names not on his birth certificate, and he is not on the absent voters list. in 1921 he was down as living in Sunderland as a soldier no mention of which area. do you want the addresses?

I have used my own scanner, but it wont let me upload it as saying too big :(

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Trish22c said:

Hi, In 1911 he was 16, and was a Cartman, he had a son, but out of wedlock in 1920 so his names not on his birth certificate, and he is not on the absent voters list. in 1921 he was down as living in Sunderland as a soldier no mention of which area. do you want the addresses?

Yes please - I think I have currently exhausted my ideas & resources and I can't access many other resources, however the address(es) may perhaps assist others.

The other idea I have just had was that if he served after the war then his service records might still be with the MoD/potentially en-route to TNA ???

There are some W and W H DAVISON on the list of known retained records [but wrong dates of birth] - however the list is also known to be incomplete!!! https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service

I think an Ancestry search [I can't] might offer the slightest of chances for later service, but no promises!

???

M

[Matlock1418]

18 minutes ago, Trish22c said:

I have used my own scanner, but it wont let me upload it as saying too big

I am not at all techy but I have found that in the past a very small edit [e.g. of a tiny change of area - crop the margins slightly] can seem to reduce a file's size significantly.

Alternatively cropping to get just the man may help

But we do need a decent resolution

That said, it now seems @Michelle Young and @FROGSMILE seem to concur on RE

M

Edited 17 March by Matlock1418

[Trish22c]

13 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Yes please - I think I have currently exhausted my ideas & resources and I can't access many other resources, however the address(es) may perhaps assist others.

The other idea I have just had was that if he served after the war then his service records might still be with the MoD/potentially en-route to TNA ???

There are some W and W H DAVISON on the list of known retained records [but wrong dates of birth] - however the list is also known to be incomplete!!! https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service

I think an Ancestry search [I can't] might offer the slightest of chances for later service, but no promises!

???

M

In 1911 he was living at 26 Wickham street Sunderland and in 1921 same street but number 34. it will have been Monkwearmouth County Durham back then,  I hope this is a better copy for you.

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, Trish22c said:

In 1911 he was living at 26 Wickham street Sunderland and in 1921 same street but number 34. it will have been Monkwearmouth County Durham back then,  I hope this is a better copy for you.

This is the cap badge the marching soldiers are wearing Trish, and the bronze badge is the collar insignia of the RE officer at front right. 

[Ken Lees]

I had a quick look at the 1914-15 Star Roll earlier and there were only two men of that name listed (with no middle name).

If I remember correctly, one was artillery and the other Northumberland Fusiliers. Did any of the Northumberland Fusiliers battalions convert to RE post-war? I know that some infantry battalions did.

[Trish22c]

8 minutes ago, Ken Lees said:

I had a quick look at the 1914-15 Star Roll earlier and there were only two men of that name listed (with no middle name).

If I remember correctly, one was artillery and the other Northumberland Fusiliers. Did any of the Northumberland Fusiliers battalions convert to RE post-war? I know that some infantry battalions did.

I have found a Northumberland Fusiliers record on Ancestry which i have posted above, i wasn't sure if it was him or not.

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Trish22c said:

 

8 minutes ago, Trish22c said:

I have found a Northumberland Fusiliers record on Ancestry which i have posted above, i wasn't sure if it was him or not.

22119, Walter DAVISON, Northumberland Fusiliers

An interesting looking MIC.    Highest rank in a ToW was Pte.   Transferred to Army Class Z Reserve.

Doesn't mean that after the war he couldn't perhaps have re-enlisted and been promoted, but ... still wondering if he could be your GF ???

Fortunately for him, and less so for us, I've not found any pension records at WFA/Fold3 - so we are short of an address or corroboration at the moment.

M

Edited 17 March by Matlock1418
typo

[Trish22c]

7 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

22119, Walter DAVISON, Northumberland Fusiliers

An interesting looking MIC.    Highest rank in a ToW was Pte.   Transferred to Army Class Z Reserve.

Doesn't mean that after the war he couldn't perhaps have re-enlisted and been promoted, but ... still wondering if he could be your GF ???

Fortunately for him, and less so for us, I've not found any pension records at WFA/Fold3 - so we are short of an address or corroboration at the moment.

M

I think it will jut have to stay a mystery for now. I have applied to the National Archives for  his service records. I'll see what they come back with. Thanks so much for all of your time and help looking for me though. It really is appreciated.

[George Rayner]

14 hours ago, Trish22c said:

from his older brother Robert

Perhaps the medals were his brother's?

George

[Trish22c]

1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

Perhaps the medals were his brother's?

George

This is something I'm going to look into, as the brothers all looked alike 😏

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

Perhaps the medals were his brother's?

We know very little about his brother

I think unlikely one would wear the other's medals on parade but perhaps there has been confusion over the identity of the marching RE ??

Just now, Trish22c said:

This is something I'm going to look into, as the brothers all looked alike 😏

I was typing as you replied

There were a number of Robert DAVISON's in the Royal Engineers several of whom got a 'trio'.

I suggest that you start another thread for Robert [with full name(s), parentage, biographical details and addresse(ses) if possible] - this should help avoid potential confusion and the two threads can later be joined by links copied over to each other.

M

[Trish22c]

9 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

We know very little about his brother

I think unlikely one would wear the other's medals on parade but perhaps there has been confusion over the identity of the marching RE ??

I was typing as you replied

There were a number of Robert DAVISON's in the Royal Engineers several of whom got a 'trio'.

I suggest that you start another thread for Robert [with full name(s), parentage, biographical details and addresse(ses) if possible] - this should help avoid potential confusion and the two threads can later be joined by links copied over to each other.

M

I have some of Roberts pension info, so I'll have a look at them later. 

I agree, maybe one of the brothers and not my Grandad. 

[FROGSMILE]

43 minutes ago, Trish22c said:

This is something I'm going to look into, as the brothers all looked alike 😏

I don’t know if it will help at all with your deliberations Trish, but the 1919 date that you quoted for your photo cannot be right given the soldier’s dress on view.  The men’s caps are the new specification type with broader, flatter and more spade like peaks issued from around 1922, plus at that time a more closely cut and thus smarter jacket was introduced to be worn with collar badges, just as can be seen in your photo.  The civilian clothes visible in the crowds also fit with the 1920s.

They also appear to be Territorial Army after it was formed in 1921.  The officer at front left is wearing the Territorial Decoration (medal) I think. 

Edited 18 March by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

14 minutes ago, Trish22c said:

maybe one of the brothers

More brothers!

I again strongly suggest, should you wish to explore their service, then separate threads under each of the brothers' names please [names in title would help separate them] - we can later link them so there is a family connection

M