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GrandsonMichael

Essex Units in the War 1914-1919

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GrandsonMichael

Hi Paul,

I’m glad to be able to help, but it is speculation....

There is one uncertainty: I can’t find Captain M.G. Robertson listed as KIA under the 9th Bn. Essex Regiment. My information doesn’t cover the 11th Bn. ...yet. On the other hand I have found Wright, Herbert, e. Colchester, 43632, Sgt, k.in a., F & F., 22/8/18., who is also mentioned on page 115.

Possibly he was attached to the 9th and not taken on strength? I’ll ask some of the other pals about this, because I presume (?) he would be mentioned under the 11th Bn.

I have some vague idea when he might have been awarded the M.C. I’m working on this and will post my theory tomorrow or the day after.

They don’t grant you much furlough, do they? :)

Cheers, Michael

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Paul Nixon

Michael

Looking again at his service papers this morning it appears that M R Robertson spent time with the 9th, 11th, 12th and 2nd battalions. He had originally attested with the Sussex Regiment on 4th September 1914 but was Discharged to Commission in December 1914. On his attestation form, his "Trade or Calling" is recorded as "Gentleman".

When applying for a commission he stated that his preferred corps was the 12th Essex but I haven't had time yet to go through all the documents and piece together a chronological history. If I get chance, that's a task for later this evening.

It appears from the papers I have looked at already that he had been wounded on two previous occasions. The papers also indicate that he was not killed outright in the action of August 22nd 1918 that you reproduce above, but died of wounds later that day.

Thanks again for your help Michael. I'll complete the chronology for this man and then PM you the details if you send me your e-mail address.

Paul

Furlough is lousy in India - 20 months overseas before my trip back last month and probably another 12 months here now. I never thought I would miss Kew quite so much.

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GrandsonMichael

Will do Paul,

Sounds like an interesting career, etc. Capt. Robertson had. I’m particularly interested in the period he served with the 2nd Battalion as my Grandfather was a regular who was sent to France 22nd August 1914.

Actually I’ve never seen the service papers of any soldier, my Grandfather’s have most likely been destroyed.

Isn’t it time for a career change to be able to visit Kew more often?

Cheers Michael

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GrandsonMichael

Paul,

Thanks to Shaymen aka Glyn (or the other way around) it is now clear how Capt. Robertson ended up with the 11th Battalion Essex Regiment. The 2nd Bn. let him go for a while as T/Captain.

post-2017-1115149079.jpg

Cheers and thanks Glyn,

Michael

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shaymen

Paul / Michael

Check out this link

http://www.bloomsburyauctions.com/html/525/

They are selling his BWM.

25. British War Medal to a Military Cross recipient for a Victoria Cross action, (Capt. M.R.Robertson). Extremely fine. (1).

£80 - £100

Captain Magnus Rainier Robertson, Essex Regiment was awarded the Military Cross (L.G. 17.9.1917) for action on 28th June 1917, and was K-I-A ,F&F, on 22.8.1918., buried at Meaulte Military Cemetary, Somme. Sold with copy of L.G citation for M.C. and copied letter from Pte J.Voller giving details of the raid with Lieut. Robertson where Lieut. Wearne, Essex Regiment, was Killed in Action and won his Victoria Cross.

Interesting stuff.

Glyn

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GrandsonMichael

How on earth did you find this Glyn?

It's a mind boggling coincidence, that’s for sure.

“British War Medal to a Military Cross recipient for a Victoria Cross action.”

Isn’t that called manipulating the truth somewhat?

Very interesting indeed, I'd really like to know where they got his medal and the information from. Suppose I could ask them...Let's see what Paul's reaction is. he has quite a lot of information on Capt. Robertson.

Thanks for posting this stuff,

Michael

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shaymen

Michael

I would like to say it was found using some of my expert research skills but the truth is it was a

Simple bit of Googling :lol:

Glyn

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GrandsonMichael

Naw, super(ior) Googling, I'm sure of it. :P

Michael

P.S. Shall we return to serious matters, the sort that score? ;)

Michael

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Paul Nixon

Glyn/Michael

Very interesting stuff and quite a coincidence that his BWM is up for sale. If I were a medal collector, I'd be wetting myself. I'm not though, but it would be nice to get a copy of the letter from Private Voller.

Actually Michael, I've just sent you a long e-mail with details of Robertson's service history. There is a frustrating gap between December 1914 and October 1916 when he appears with the 2nd Essex, later 2nd attached to the 11th, and latterly with the 9th Essex.

Thanks both for the further information supplied on Robertson.

Paul

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Paul Nixon

More information to add, having just heard back from Ian Hook at The Essex Regiment:

The Record of 2nd Bn Officers in the European War (ER4658) records:

13/07/1916 Embarked for France

19/07/1916 Joined 2nd Bn at Mailly Maillet

13/08/1916-29/08/1916 Temporary Captain

23/10/1916 Wounded in action GSW R Arm and Buttocks near Lesbouefs

01/11/1916 Invalided to England

10/10/1916-23/10/1916 Acting Captain

More pieces to the jigsaw...

Paul

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GrandsonMichael

Great Paul,

Thanks for this additional information and your extensive e-mail. I'll keep on digging, but one problem is that not all the Burrows books have an Index.......and typically Volume 2, 2nd Bn. Essex Regiment is one of them.

If there is a mention of Captain Roberts in Volume 2 or in the War Diary up to December 1915, incl. I'll report back.

Michael

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Paul Nixon

Thanks Michael

You won't find a mention of him in the war diary until 19th July 1916 at the earliest when he joined (as a lieutenant presumably) but I wouldn't be surprised if he features somewhere in Burrows.

Best wishes

Paul

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Wienand Drenth

Hello Michael,

Just read your post. I was wondering if there was any information in the books related to the Essex artillery uints:

Essex RHA

2nd East Anglian Bde, RFA

Essex (East Anglian) RGA, and

Essex and Suffolk RGA

I am especially interested in references to 2nd and/or 3rd Line units.

I am also interested in the Essex (Fortress) Engineers. Any reference to those?

Thanks in advance for looking!

Cheers,

Wienand

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GrandsonMichael

Hi Wienand,

It’s always a disappointment to have to say no, no, no, no, no, bah!

No references at all after checking my brain ( not sensible), the Indexes of the books (the ones that have them) and the Contents of all six volumes. I’m afraid the books were written exclusively about the history of the Infantry Battalions, regular, reserve, territorial, garrison, etc. and the Yeomanry....

I am especially interested in references to 2nd and/or 3rd Line units.

If by this you mean the territorial infantry units (and looking at the main subject you are studying, I guess you are) there is a reference to 2nd and 3rd line units in Volume 5 of about 5 pages:

“During the war second and third line units were formed but, unfortunately, many of the records have been lost and it has been difficult to trace fully their history.” (page 355)

If this is of interest, please yell or P.M. me and I can post or send scans of these pages.

Cheers,

Michael

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Wienand Drenth

Hello Michael,

That is a pity. It seems artillery and engineers are not so popular by historians.

2nd and 3rd Line infantry is of course also interesting! So if you would like to make copies, I will be very happy. Tell me what is most convenient to you (copies or scans).

One further question, but I am afraid this is not contained either in the books, is there any reference to the 1914 - 1918 Volunteer Force? In July 1918 the battalions of the Essex Volunteer Regiments became affiliated to the Essex Regiment and redesignated like 1st Volunteer Battalion etc.

I hope my hope is not in vein...

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Wienand

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GrandsonMichael

Wienand,

I have to confess my ignorance here as I have never heard of any Essex Volunteer Force nor the re-designation in 1918. (not quite true: I once found a picture of a lapel badge which was explained to me on this Forum belonged to The Essex Volunteer Regiment1914 - 1918)

Neither can I find any reference to these Battalions in Burrows, alas.

Sorry to once more disappoint you. Could you PM me with an E-mail address where I can send the scans on the 2nd and 3rd line infantry?

Cheers,

Michael

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veklee
Hereby I proudly announce that I have been able to add Vols. 3 & 4 to my collection..... :lol:

John Wm. Burrows, Essex Units in the War 1914 – 1919:

Volume 1:  1st Bn. The Essex Regiment, 1923.

Volume 2:  2nd Bn. The Essex Regiment, 1927.

Volume 3: The Essex Yeomanry, 1925. Includes a list of Officers and Men who were killed in action, died of wounds or as a result of service, and were wounded during the war! Ditto a list of members of the Essex Yeomanry who received honours or awards for servive in the campaign, with year of award.

Volume 4: The Essex Militia, 1929. For obvious reasons (?) only 8 pages are devoted to WWI.

Volume 5:  Essex Territorial Infantry Brigade (4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, & 8th Battalions), 1932.

Includes a List of Honours awarded to Officers and Other Ranks of the Battalions of the 161st Brigade.

Volume 6:  Service Battalions The Essex Regiment (9th, 10th, 11th, 13th & 15th Battalions),

1935.

All Books Published by arrangement with the Essex Territorial Army Association. John H. Burrows & Sons, LTD.

I’m happy, proud and broke…….

Look ups offered.

Cheers,  Michael

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Coldstreamer

Hello

Do you have any details on a 2nd Lt Leheup please. He won the MC in Nov 1918

Thanks Ian

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GrandsonMichael
Hello

Do you have any details on a 2nd Lt Leheup please. He won the MC in Nov 1918

Thanks Ian

Hi Ian,

SUPPLEMENT TO THE LONDON GAZETTE, 10 DECEMBER, 1919. 15349

“Lt. Edgar Percy Leheup, 4th Bn., Essex R.,

attd. 10 Bn. (T.F.").

He commanded a company in the attack

on Mont Carmel on 26th October, 1918, and

after the capture of the objective he found

that his right flank was not in touch.. "Under

heavy fire he set out on a personal reconnaissance,

and succeeded in locating the position

of the troops on his right flank. On 4th

November, 1918, he gained his objective with

great gallantry and skill. On two occasions

his company was held up by hostile machinegun

fire, but in each case he overcame the

opposition by pushing on round the flanks.”

This is what Burrows has to report and I must say it mystifies me completely:

“B” Company 10th Battalion Essex Regiment, attack objective: a sunken road leading from Pommereuil to Forest. October 23rd, 1918. The attack was conducted under a creeping barrage moving forward at the rate of one hundred yards a minute. A tank was attached, with the duty of overcoming any “hold-up,” at a strong point, but, unfortunately, did not participate. “A” Company (Lieut. J. V. Jacklin) and “D” Company (Lieut. B. A. Morrow) led the way, with “B” Company (Lieut. E. P. Leheup) in support.”

This is the only mention of Lieut. Leheup. There is nothing on the action on October 26th, for which he was awarded the M.C., which surprises me. Burrows has the following to report on the actions on the 26th:

“......on the October 26th the Berkshires and Essex were put in again against Mont Carmel, a slight hill over the Landrecies-Englefontaine road. Three companies were in line, but in the enclosed country, full of hedges, orchards and sunken roads, the fighting was very confused. “B” and “C” Companies were able to reach their objectives, except for a strong point at the cross roads, but “A” Company, on the left, were unable to get forward, neither could the flank company of the Berkshires. A great gap was created, which was filled by Major R. Forbes, who brought up “D” Company, thus making the line secure.” The right flank of the Essex was already in touch with 55th Brigade. That night Major Forbes took over command of the Battalion. The Essex remained in the line until the night of October 29th-30th.”

“It was expected that the 53rd Brigade would be called upon to attack again on November 1st, but the operation was postponed to November 4th.”

(Burrows, Volume 6, pages 244, 245 & 246.)

Burrows continues to describe the actual attack that took place, but there is no mention of Lieut. Leheup at all!

I don’t understand this, neither the gap between October 26th and November 4th in the citation in The London Gazette....

If you PM me with your e-mail address I can send you scans of the relevant pages + a photo which actually depicts Lieut. Leheup!

See attachment, which is a partial of this photo. The quality is bad, sorry about that. The quality of the scan of the complete photo is a lot better.

Cheers,

Michael

post-2017-1117555238.jpg

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GrandsonMichael

Sorry Ian,

I forgot to add that I think Lt. Leheup is the guy with the moustache...when you see the complete photo it is a matter of counting correctly. (So I won't swear it's him till you've verified this :lol: )

Michael

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veklee

hi michael.

me being in possesion of a small number of brain cells cannot work out if i asked this , i have a TFEM issued 1910 to a g bryant essex regiment , now this guy is supposed to have DOW 1915 ,now the bryant DOW ( getting complicated or wot ) is called greyham born chelsea lived chingford, the mic just gives G as does the TFEM card now the DOW bryant was working as a an insurance agent in 1901 , ( u lost the plot yet ) wot i need to no is there any mention in ure books( please god just this once ) to this guy or guys ,

hoping to send you as mad as me

cheers

barry

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Coldstreamer

Hello

Thanks for the info on Leheup

Ian

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GrandsonMichael

Barry,

If the number of braincells count, count me out!

Seriously, I'll try to find your man if it is possible with the means I have.

Cheers,

Michael

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GrandsonMichael

Hi Barry,

What a headache! So, yes, it’s getting me really mad....Let’s try and see what facts we have:

278, Pte. Bryant, G. 5th Bn. Essex Regt. awarded the T.F.E. Medal. Date of Army Order 7 S, Page 5. 1/4/10. (T.F.E. Medal Index Card). If this Bryant saw no war service he would have joined on the 1st October 1898, to have gottten his 12 years in.

3/3340 Pte. Bryant, G., 2/Essex R. Disembarked in France 6-3-15. D. of W. 3-5-15. (Medal Index Card.)

You found 3/3340 Pte. Bryant, G. via the CWGC website, same guy as on the M.I.C.

Again, the same guy is mentioned in Soldiers died in the Great War 1914 – 19.:

Bryant, Greyham, born in Chelsea, Middlesex. Enrolled Stratford, Essex , but lived in Chingford, Essex.

Next you looked up G. Bryant via the 1901 Census and found Greyham, 30 years of age, born in London, Chelsea, working as an Insurance Agent and living in Kensington at the time.

However much brain crunching I do, I cannot for the life of me see that the 1901 Census Bryant is the same guy as the T.F.E.M. Bryant. How ever much arithmetic one uses, he could never have got this medal. He could of course be the Bryant who died in 1915.....

You said: “this guy is supposed to have DOW 1915.” If your conclusion is based purely on the fact that 278 Bryant, G. and 3/3340 Bryant, G. appear on the same downloaded page of M.I.C.’s then I think this is a mistaken conclusion, unless you have any additional information which links the two men?

Cheers, Michael

P.S. Come to think of it, why would a T.F.E.M. index card appear among the M.I.C.’s of WWI at all???

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veklee

hi michael , brain teaser or wot ,

on the census 2 greyham bryants 1- 5mths 1- 31, on war graves it gives age 46 ? so we can take it the guy who died 1915 is this one living in chingford, now on the roll for qsa theres 1 g bryant , whos papers are at archives called george army reserve 1907,

now i have a tefm to g bryant dated as we say 1910 , card in with mics ,

im trying my best to tie em together but no way can i say this guy is the casualty 1915,

as you say he would have had to do his service to qualify and i dont think the chelsea guy is the guy on tefm,

so you wanna buy a tefm hahaha

no probs tho ill just back it and get a refund shame tho as i collect chingford/waltahamstow guys

thanks for your help much appreciated

barry

c/o the asylum

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