Pte Albert Wharton Royal Welch Fusiliers? What is this photo?

[danmb1987]

I'm trying to find records and information of my great great grandfather Albert Wharton. I'm also looking for general information about his regiment. My military knowledge is poor if I'm coming across as a bit of a dunce.

Albert was born on 13th Oct 1878 in Dewsbury, Yorkshire. I've been able to find some service records (militia attestation) on Find My Past which show in November 1897 he was joining up, but then paid £1 two weeks later to be discharged. The same thing happened again in December 1897. 

Why would this be?

I've also been told he fought in the Second Boer War. I can't find any proof of this. And in 1901 census he is in Bradford Barracks. 

The pictures attached; one shows a picture of him on some sort of souvenir which says he was the 3rd Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers. On one of his marriage certificates (he was married 3times) in 1919 his job is given but it also says "Ex Pte 4th R.W.F". Again I can't find any records showing him joining up in World War 1.

Why has he switched battalions, did this happen often? 

After a quick look on wikipedia its my understanding that these battalions trained troops to go to the front line. The tunic he wears in the photos I'm told was when he was in the Boer War - in 1914 he would have been 36 and I think he looks a lot younger than that in the photo, was this photo reused? I read somewhere the reason they wore the red (or was it blue?) tunics was because they didn't have enough uniforms in its then current form due to the outbreak of war.

I've heard a lot of outlandish stories about this man some have turned out to be true but others I'm struggling to get to the bottom of. One is of his heroism in the trenches - which I don't believe is correct. 

- Am I looking in the right places for records? I know some have been destroyed.

- Was he actually in the war? As in went to France in the trenches?

- Can anyone expand on the little information I have with their own better knowledge?

I've also included what I think is the original photo - shown to me by his youngest daughter. Because he married 3 times and had children over 30years she is the same age as my grandmother. 

The colour one is what we think is a painting of the orginal photo.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank You

[Allan1892]

A search of the Medal Rolls registers has found:

4th Royal Welsh Fusiliers (Territorial Force)

Albert Wharton

Service No: 10641; re-numbered (in 1917) to 202231

His MIC (Medal Index Card) does not show a date of when he entered a theatre of war, this means that he didn't go overseas until after 31 December 1915.

(images attached courtesy of Ancestry)

[FROGSMILE]

The soldier in the photograph is definitely not wearing a Royal Welsh Fusiliers uniform.  His upper garment is a home service frock (working jacket made of coarser material and with a looser cut than a tunic) for an English or Welsh regiment without any Royal appellation.  This categorisation was indicated via the white collar and cuffs known collectively as ‘facings’.  Both the South Wales Borderers (ex 24th Regt) and Welsh Regiment (ex 41st & 69th) were accordingly so attired.  Conversely the Royal Welsh Fusiliers (ex 23rd Regt) had been a Royal regiment since the early 1700s, and so were distinguished by dark blue facings.

Each regiment in the British Army was eventually given specific recruiting areas as part of root and branch reform in July 1881, and naturally there were demarcation or border lines (usually related to Counties) between these.  The closest regiment to RWF in its Southern recruiting area was the SWB, so it seems possible, or likely even, that your subject might have originally been with a different regiment, perhaps as an auxiliary (Militia or Volunteers), but then subsequently at some point joined the RWF.

Edited 19 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[danmb1987]

Thank you for those. I think I probably have seen them at some point but couldn't verify it was him due to this mix up of 3rd and 4th battalions. 
 

Did he go overseas though? What would prove this? And if it was a territorial force - why would he have gone overseas? 

[danmb1987]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

The soldier in the photograph is definitely not wearing a Royal Welsh Fusiliers uniform.

I didn't think so. It reminds me of The British uniforms in The American War of Independence - meaning I'd told myself its too old for WW1. I'm sure I've read somewhere it was because they didn't have enough (then)current uniforms to go around.
 

Which confuses me even more - 1897 he signs up and pays to discharge himself twice. 1899 (Boer War?) 1901 Bradford Barracks. I'm sure in the 1911 census hes a civilian. I can't find anything more than that 1901 census between 1897-1911.

And did everyone that survived get this "souvenir photo?" Because a medal and that after slogging through trenched France is quite frankly as cheap as it can get.

[Michelle Young]

His medal index card proves he served in a theatre of war, not serving until after 31/12/1915, as Allan explained above. 

It’s all very confusing initially, I would suggest that you have a good read of the Long Long Trail website, linked from the forum. 
Just a bit of it here, about the RWF battalions. 
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-welsh-fusiliers/

[Michelle Young]

The uniform and the haircut are to me an indicator of service late  19th and early 20th century, but I’m sure Frogsmile will be able to assist you more. 

[danmb1987]

"Because of the shortage of khaki service uniforms, the SR men were initially clothed in temporary blue uniforms, or even old scarlet tunics."

 

- Wikipedia

15 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The soldier in the photograph is definitely not wearing a Royal Welsh Fusiliers uniform.  His upper garment is a home service frock (working jacket made of coarser material and with a looser cut than a tunic) for an English or Welsh regiment without any Royal appellation.  This categorisation was indicated via the white collar and cuffs known collectively as ‘facings’.  Both the South Wales Borderers (ex 24th Regt) and Welsh Regiment (ex 41st & 69th) were accordingly so attired.  Conversely the Royal Welsh Fusiliers (ex 23rd Regiment) had been a Royal regiment since the early 1700s and so were distinguished by dark blue facings.

Each regiment in the British Army was eventually given specific recruiting areas as part of reform in July 1881 and naturally there were border lines (usually related to Counties) between these.  The closest regiment to RWF in its Southern area was the SWB so it seems possible or likely even that your subject might have originally been with a different regiment, perhaps as an auxiliary (Militia or Volunteers), but then subsequently at some point joined the RWF.

I have seen his militia attestation forms from Yorkshire. Could it be that he moved from there?

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, danmb1987 said:

I didn't think so. It reminds me of The British uniforms in The American War of Independence - meaning I'd told myself its too old for WW1. I'm sure I've read somewhere it was because they didn't have enough (then)current uniforms to go around.
 

Which confuses me even more - 1897 he signs up and pays to discharge himself twice. 1899 (Boer War?) 1901 Bradford Barracks. I'm sure in the 1911 census hes a civilian. I can't find anything more than that 1901 census between 1897-1911.

And did everyone that survived get this "souvenir photo?" Because a medal and that after slogging through trenched France is quite frankly as cheap as it can get.

Bradford had originally been the regimental depot for the 14th Regiment of Foot that became the West Yorkshire Regiment, but in 1873 moved to brand new barracks in York leaving Bradford just as a routine station for an infantry battalion.  We need to establish who (regiment and battalion) was there in 1901. 

[FROGSMILE]

6 minutes ago, danmb1987 said:

"Because of the shortage of khaki service uniforms, the SR men were initially clothed in temporary blue uniforms, or even old scarlet tunics."

 

- Wikipedia

I have seen his militia attestation forms from Yorkshire. Could it be that he moved from there?

Yes I think that the uniform definitely shows him with a Militia battalion, probably for one of the Yorkshire regiments circa 1901.  The scarlet home service frock that he wears was replaced by khaki serge service dress of the type worn in the war from 1902 onward, although it took longer for the new uniform to be received by the Militia and the Volunteers.

Edited 18 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[danmb1987]

For some reason I've only saved the first page to my ancestry. But I KNOW he discharged himself. It was found on 'Find My Past'

This is 1897

Edited 18 October , 2023 by danmb1987

[PRC]

1 hour ago, danmb1987 said:

Albert was born on 13th Oct 1878 in Dewsbury, Yorkshire. I've been able to find some service records (militia attestation) on Find My Past which show in November 1897 he was joining up, but then paid £1 two weeks later to be discharged. The same thing happened again in December 1897. 

Hi  @danmb1987 and welcome to the forum

Both the enlistments you have cited were in the Militia rather than the Regular Army. The Militia were a local part time force – men enlisted for the defence of their home county and nothing more. Their was an initial period of full time training, so many who signed up were then likely to be out of work or between contracts. Certainly with my own County Regiment it seems the October to January period drove an uptick of Agricultual Labourers probably looking for a few weeks of a dry bed, warm clothing and a few meals in their belly – and paid to boot.

Both enlistments were with the 3^rd Battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.

The soldier on the 1901 Census of England & Wales was recorded in Bradford Moor Barracks at Bradford Moor, Bradford. The unit isn’t stated in the actual Census return but the first name on the first page is a Lieutenant Colonel William Edwin Sturges. And checking out the declaration, the Barracks return was signed by a Lieutenant Colonel Stuges of the 3^rd Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers.

Image courtesy Genes Reunited

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 18 October , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[FROGSMILE]

In 1899 the 1st Battalion (regulars) of the Alexandra Princess of Wales’s Own Yorkshire Regiment was based in Bradford Moor Barracks.

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, PRC said:

Hi  @danmb1987 and welcome to the forum

Both the enlistments you have cited were in the Militia rather than the Regular Army. The Militia were a local part time force – men enlisted for the defence of their home county and nothing more. Their was an initial period of full time training, so many who signed up were then likely to be out of work or between contracts. Certainly with my own County Regiment it seems the October to January period drove an uptick of Agricultual Labourers probably looking for a few weeks of a dry bed, warm clothing and a few meals in their belly – and paid to boot.

Both enlistments were with the 3^rd Battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.

The soldier on the 1901 Census of England & Wales was recorded in Bradford Moor Barracks at Bradford Moor, Bradford. The unit isn’t stated in the actual Census return but the first name on the first page is a Lieutenant Colonel William Edwin Sturges. And checking out the declaration, the Barracks return was signed by a Lieutenant Colonel Stuges of the 3^rd Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers.

Image courtesy Genes Reunited

Cheers,
Peter

That’s it Peter!  Northumberland Fusiliers fits perfectly.  You’ve cracked it.  That is certainly the pre Boer War uniform in the photo.  After the Boer War the regiments white facing colour reverted to a khaki shade of Green.

 

Edited 18 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

Albert WHARTON,

A pension index card at WFA/Fold3 shows he claimed for a disability pension under a Z/RWF pension reference.

He cites service as:

• Royal Welsh Fusiliers, 202231 [latest - definitely]
• King's Own Yorkshire, Light Infantry 1082
• Northumberland Fusiliers, 7787 [likely his earliest - given the way the MoP typically listed service]

There is also a pension ledger page:

Condition unspecified but he gave the address of 11 Foundry St, Radcliffe nr. Manchester

Quite a lot of correspondence/MoP entries through to 1926, including EATS [Employment Appeals Tribunal Service] entries - then record signed as OK in 1930

M

Edited 18 October , 2023 by Matlock1418
formatting

[FROGSMILE]

38 minutes ago, danmb1987 said:

For some reason I've only saved the first page to my ancestry. But I KNOW he discharged himself. It was found on 'Find My Past'

This is 1897

As Peter has explained the Militia (auxiliary citizen soldiers) enlistments were with the King’s Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry).  As a regiment with Royal appellation in the specific name of the King, then as with RWF the facing colour for collar and cuffs was dark blue.

Edited 18 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

A pension index card at WFA/Fold3 shows he claimed for a disability pension under a Z/RWF pension reference.

He cites service as:

Royal Welsh Fusiliers 202231 [latest]

King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 1082

Northumberland Fusiliers 7787 [likely his earliest - given the way the MoP typically listed service]

There is also a pension ledger page:

Condition unspecified but he gave the address of 11 Foundry St, Radcliffe nr. Manchester

Quite a lot of correspondence/MoP entries through to 1926, including EATS [Employment Appeals Tribunal Service] entries - then record signed as OK in 1930

M

The sequence of units that you’ve suggested fits with the relatively old pattern of uniform (i.e. home service frock) that he wears in the OP’s photo and colourised image.

Edited 18 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

Paul Nixons’ Army Service Number website adds this for the Northumberland Fusiliers during the period in question.

“With Great Britain at war with the Boers, the Northumberland Fusiliers had been given permission to raise two more regular battalions. The 3rd Battalion was raised at York on the 10th January 1900 and the 4th Battalion at York on the 17th February 1900. Men joining these battalions were given numbers in the same series that was already in use for the 1st and 2nd Battalions. There was no numbering distinction between the four battalions.”
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2012/03/northumberland-fusiliers-regular.html

Looking at  a few of the other names on the same page of the 1901 Census return as Albert Wharton, who was on line 2 of page 11 of the barracks return:-

Line 3 John Wiggins, aged 19, born Birmingham.

Surviving Regular Army records in the pre-Great War WO97 series. Service number 6627. Enlisted Birmingham 10^th May 1900 for a 12 year short service enlistment, split 7 years in the colours and 5 in the reserves. Reported to the Depot at Newcastle on the 13^th May 1900 and then posted on to the 3^rd Battalion on the 11^th June 1900. Posted 19^th Company Mounted Infantry on the 7^th February 1902, sailing for South Africa the same day. Purchased his release in November 1902 after returning to the UK.

Line 7 John Bateman, aged 16, born Leicester.

Surviving Regular Army records in the pre-Great War WO97 series. Service number 6963. Enlisted London 31^st October 1900 for a “long” service enlistment – actually 12 years in the colours. “Joined” the Regiment at London on the same day and was posted to the 3^rd Battalion.
He had been placed in the Army by an Industrial School near Lincoln. Discharged on grounds of misconduct in January 1903. Had actually served in the West Indies for a short while, leaving the UK on the 30^th April 1902, bofore moving on to South Africa on the 23^rd July 1902.

Line 8 William Stewart, aged 19, born Berwick, Cumberland.

Surviving Regular Army records in the pre-Great War WO97 series. Service number 6138. Enlisted Berwick on Tweed on the 10^th November 1899 on a short service enlistment split 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves. He was then serving in the Militia with the 3^rd Battalion Kings Own Scottish Borderers.He reached the depot at Newcastle on the same day.William was posted from the Depot to the 3^rd Battalion on the 17^th March 1900, and deserted on the 19^th June 1900. He returned, by the looks of things of his own volition, on the 4^th January 1901.Convicted by Court Martial, all prior service was wiped from his records and his 12 years started again. Unfortunately he deserted again on the 9^th July 1901, returning on the 20^th December 1901.After time in Military Prison he was posted to the 9^th Mounted Infantry Company on the 21^st March 1902, but sailed for the West Indies on the 30^th April 1902 before moving on to first South Africa and then Mauritius. He was discharged for the Reserve part of his service on the 23^rd January 1906. He was discharged from the Army time served on the 26^th December 1913.

Line 9 John William Orme, aged 20, born Wrickington, County Durham.

Surviving Regular Army records in the pre-Great War WO97 series. Service number 6365. Enlisted Newcastle on Tyne on the 24^th January 1900 on a short service enlistment split 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves. Reached the Depot the same day and was posted to the 3^rd Battalion on the 1^st May 1900.Went AWOL for 7 days in September 1900.Had previously two periods of absence in March 1900. Sailed for the West Indies on the 30^th April 1902 before moving on to South Africa. Transfered to Army Reserve 29^th November 1903.Discharged from the Army 29^th January 1912.

Line 14 Samuel Betts, aged 23, born Stoke, Staffordshire.

Surviving Regular Army records in the pre-Great War WO97 series. Service number 7865. Enlisted Newcastle, (probably the one in Staffordshire as his medical was at Lichfield and he wanted to enlist in the South Staffordshire Regiment), 15^th January 1901 for a 12 year short service enlistment, split 7 years in the colours and 5 in the reserves. But he doesn’t appear to have made it to the Depot as he went AWOL the next day. He handed himself in on the 12^th February 1901 and was promptly transferred to the Northumberland Fusiliers, reaching the Newcastle Depot on the 18^th – which is when that service number is likely to have been issued. He was posted to the 3^rd Battalion on the 6^th March 1901. Sailed for the West Indies on the 30^th April 1902 before moving on to South Africa.He purchased his discharge in February 1903.

_____________________ 

Checking out the Anglo-Boer War wesbite it looks like the 3^rd Battalion would have arrived in South Africa after the fighting was over. https://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/imperial-units/578-northumberland-fusiliers?showall=1

There is a J. Wiggins of the 1^st Battalion, Northumberland Fusiliers, who is on the Regimental Roll for the Queens South Africa and Kings South Africa Medals, but I don’t know if that is the same man.

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

Northumberland Fusiliers 7787 [likely his earliest]

And going back to Paul Nixons’ website, he shows the Regular Army Battalions of the Northumberland Fusiliers issued regimental service number 7787 at some point between the 10^th January 1900 (6341) and the 16^th January 1901 (7799). https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2012/03/northumberland-fusiliers-regular.html

Service records exist in the pre-war WO97 series for:-

7786 Ernest Walter Clay enlisted Derby 11^th January 1901. 12 years short service split 7 years in the colours and 5 in the reserves. Reached Depot at Newcaste the next day. Posted 3^rd Battalion on the 6^th February 1901.

7788 Frank Dawson enlisted Newcastle on Tyne 14^th January 1901, 12 years short service split 3 years in the colours and 9 in the reserves. Reached Depot same day. Posted 3^rd Battalion on the 6^th February 1901.

Fuller details can be seen in the paperwork available on FindMyPast and Genes Reunited.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 18 October , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[danmb1987]

YOU LOT ARE BRILLIANT! Thank You so much for all this information.

I have so many questions...

- is this a uniform that he will have kept with him from joining The Northumberland Fusiliers through to 1914?

- the information given proves he did NOT fight in The Boer War?

- I still don't understand the souvenir photo - if this uniform was with him from the late 1890s and WW1 ended in 1918 why was that old photo used of him when he looks around 18 and in 1918 he would have been 40 with a different uniform?

- how can I find out if he did go overseas after 1915?

I've never been certain he did. The marriage certificate I originally posted (19 Mar 1919) was his second marriage to the same person. ((We believe bigamy was committed, his first wife was in an asylum possibly for post natal depression, and his second wife was allegedly his friends wife who Albert married when his friend died, his friend was also possibly a soilder)) He first married Isabella on 16 Aug 1918. Which means he could only have been overseas from 1 Jan 1916 - 15 Aug 1918.

 
- How do I find out what he or the battalion were doing after 1915?

- and to be clear in 1901 he was Northumberland Fusiliers but in 1914 due to that photo he is Welch Fusiliers but probably using an old photo?

- the profiles you showed for the other soliders does Albert have one of these? Where do I find it if so?

Edited 18 October , 2023 by danmb1987

[Matlock1418]

34 minutes ago, danmb1987 said:

- is this a uniform that he will have kept with him from joining The Northumberland Fusiliers through to 1914?

- the information given proves he did NOT fight in The Boer War?

- I still don't understand the souvenir photo - if this uniform was with him from the late 1890s and WW1 ended in 1918 why was that old photo used of him when he looks around 18 and in 1918 he would have been 40 with a different uniform?

- how can I find out if he did go overseas after 1915?

Really one for @FROGSMILE but there certainly was a shift from the more dressy formal uniforms depicted to khaki for the battlefield.

Photographs of individual soldiers were not done by the Army [except perhaps in circumstances of gallantry medals etc.] = they were privately commissioned - so perhaps one in khaki wasn't available [or maybe they preferred the more dressy one] for commemorative use ??

Overseas service after 31/12/1915 shown on/proven by his MIC as 10641 [on first deployment] & 202231 [later] - and award of a British War Medal and a Victory Medal - a 'Mutt & Jeff' pair

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

M

Edited 18 October , 2023 by Matlock1418
add MIC image

[PRC]

24 minutes ago, danmb1987 said:

is this a uniform that he will have kept with him from joining The Northumberland Fusiliers through to 1914?

He would have handed his uniform in on being discharged to the Army Reserve. If he did 7 years in the Colours, (i.e. in uniform, in barracks, subject to Military Discipline 24/7, receiving full board, lodgings and medical care) then that would have been in 1908 - three years in the Colours would be 1904.

As part of that discharge they would have noted his measurements, and the Regimental Quartemaster would have kept a supply of the current equipment in the appropriate sizes so that if he was mobilised from the reserve he could be issued with a mix of new and recycled kit.

If any of the kit was still current when he handed it in it would have been recycled to a new recruit \ replacement for worn out or lost equipment. It wouldn't sit on a shelf gathering dust.

Whether he did a 3 and 9 or a 7 and 5 split, he would still have been an Army Reservist on the 2nd April 1911 when the Census of England & Wales was taken, which is why you find him out in civvy street. If he signed up for the long service 21 years then he would still have been in the colours at the time of that census.

His 12 years would have been up in January 1913, (unless it was extended for discplinary reasons like some of the examples posted above), and while he had a one time option to extend his service in the Reserves by four years, (becoming an Army Reserve Section D man in the parlance), there is no evidence so far that he did.

So when the Army Reservists were mobilised on the 5th August 1914 he would have been under no obligation to serve. He could choose to enlist again, but seems that part of his Army life was over.

24 minutes ago, danmb1987 said:

- the information given proves he did NOT fight in The Boer War?

The 3rd Battalion were probably stationed at Bradford to allow another Regular Army Battalion to serve in South Africa. A number of Militia Battalions were also embodied fulltime to release Regular Army troops to head to South Africa - I'm a bit hazy but I believe some even served in the Mediterreanean and received a variation on one of the South Africa medals. Individuals serving in such units might regards themselves as doing their bit. And as you can see from one of those sample records it looks like at least some part of the 3rd Battalion went on to Mauritius, where I believe Boer War prisoners were held. But no I don't think he fired a shot in anger on the Veldt between 1899 and 1902.

24 minutes ago, danmb1987 said:

- I still don't understand the souvenir photo - if this uniform was with him from the late 1890s and WW1 ended in 1918 why was that old photo used of him when he looks around 18 and in 1918 he would have been 40 with a different uniform?

Maybe it's the only one they had

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 18 October , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[danmb1987]

You don't know how true that is! Its the only photo I know of him in existence.

Its the only photo that everyone seems to have. His daughter has the one with the slash across. A great grandson has the souvenir photo, and I have the coloured one from my Grandad.

Albert died in 1952. No-one I've traced has anything different.

Edited 18 October , 2023 by danmb1987

[danmb1987]

"So when the Army Reservists were mobilised on the 5th August 1914 he would have been under no obligation to serve. He could choose to enlist again, but seems that part of his Army life was over"

So he only got back in due to conscription then? 

And before 1901 in those 1897 what was happening there? Like someone said before that some people just dropped in and out?

[danmb1987]

Right I'm clear he did go overseas. I've re-read it all and taken it in. Sorry that was a lot to see at once. 
 

How do I find out what he was doing? Would this look correct? 
 

https://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=878#:~:text=In 1917 they were in,the official entry into Lille.

[RussT]

If you look at the Medal Roll posted above, all 3 men on it have surnames beginning with "W".

That seems too much of a coincidence - and sure enough when you examine more pages of the Roll with similar 4/RWF numbers you quickly discover a whole series of men in surname alphabetical order going from at least 10431/202036 (Ashby) to 10650/20223 (Waring) - so a little over 200 men (typical of a Company size). The only way this can happen is when men are transferred at the same time and same place, and typically from the same unit. Bulk transfers of this type often take place almost immediately upon arrival at an Infantry Base Depot (in, say, France) but they can also take place within the UK between Reserve Battalions of different Regiments. Either way, the reason is simply to move men from where there was a surplus to where there was a need.

It is then a simple task to find any Service Record for any man within the given number range in order to help conclusions to be drawn on the movements of your own man for whom a Record has not survived.

A very quick look shows that these men were transferred from the 13th (Reserve) KOYLI to the 3/4th (RWF) on 09/06/1916. Hence the transfer in this case took place in the UK. Given he is a Yorkshire man, his prior Regiment being the KOYLI is now more explicable - and solves the mystery as to why he ended up and fought overseas with the RWF.

His prior service with the KOYLI in this case may or may not have anything to do with his evident previous service discussed elsewhere in this thread.

Regards

Russ