Military Cross

[Chris Hiley]

I am helping a friend with his research into his father's service in WW1. He was William Henry Abel born 1888. W H Abel was awarded a Military Cross in 1918. My friend has his father's medal but does not know why, when and where he was awarded it. The medal is inscribed 'Awarded to Capt. W H Abel 32nd Sikh Pioneers 1918'.

I have researched W H Abel's life and war service and searched in vain for any record of this award (London Gazette, British Library etc) but cannot find any reference to it.

Does any member have any suggestion as to how we can find out more?

Thankyou.

[Ivor Anderson]

Welcome to the GWF. I can't see it in the LG either. What evidence does he have that his father won the MC?

Captain from July 1916: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30199/page/7494

Edited 5 October , 2023 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Chris Hiley]

Yes - see my original post.

[Ivor Anderson]

Is it possible to post a photo of the medal with the inscription? Does it look like this:

Edited 5 October , 2023 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Matlock1418]

4 hours ago, Chris Hiley said:

The medal is inscribed 'Awarded to Capt. W H Abel 32nd Sikh Pioneers 1918'.

Might this be an Indian award?

Given more local knowledge perhaps @MaureenE  may be able to shed light ??

M

Edited 5 October , 2023 by Matlock1418

[Stevie]

There is nothing listed in Peter Warrington's register of the Military Cross either.

Cheers,

           Steve

[TullochArd]

MC was awarded blank in 1918 (1938>1957 year of award on lower limb and then>1984 named to the recipient) so this inscription would appear to be local engraving. 

Lt. William Henry Abel IARO was awarded the single BWM issued by the Govt. of India.  

The attached MIC is interesting ....... and mentions 32nd Sikh Pioneers ....... the associated India Office BWM MIC identifies him as "Lt" 

 

 

Edited 5 October , 2023 by TullochArd

[TullochArd]

........ here's the story. I must confess an MC, which is awarded for "gallantry during active operations against the enemy", seems difficult to see from this.  Chris - are we sure this is an actual M.C. and not some sort of local regimental medal recognising service?

Edited 5 October , 2023 by TullochArd

[PhilB]

 Not sure if this helps:-
 

Medal card of Abel, W H Corps: Royal Field Artillery Rank: Interpreter...

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Reference:	WO 372/1/6683
Description:	Medal card of Abel, W H Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Field Artillery   Interpreter Attached 22nd 51st Pioneers   Interpreter Indian Army   Interpreter
Date:	1914-1920
Held by:	The National Archives, Kew
Legal status:	Public Record(s)
Closure status:	Open Document, Open Description

[PRC]

By the time the Indian Army List for the 2nd quarter of 1919 was issued he was not on the strength of either the 1st or 2nd Battalion 32nd Sikh Pioneers. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.285013/page/n931/mode/2up?q=32nd&view=theater

He does turn up, or at least a William Henry Abel does, as an Infantry Lieutenant in the Indian Army Reserve of Officers. His seniority as a Lieutenant is dated 24th July 1916. There is no reference to him being a Temporary Captain, (there are other such references on the page), nor is there an M.C. award noted, (again there are instances of that on the two pages available on this link https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.285013/page/n393/mode/2up?q=Abel&view=theater

Of course could simply be a timing issue that the MC award was missed from that edition.

Archive Org also has the Quarterly edition issued in January 1920. This has him as a Captain from the 24th July 1919, and shows he has been released from his commission. He is not shown as entitled to the M.C. https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.278912/page/n403/mode/2up?q=Abel

3 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Captain from July 1916: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30199/page/7494

His name appears as part of a long, long list. I've been through it twice now and I'm still not 100% convinced I have it right, but on page 7488 just below half way down it switches from Lieutenants who are to be Captains to Second Lieutenants who are to be Lieutenants. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30199/page/7488

So unless it was a local temporary promotion I'm not sure he was a Captain in 1918 - at best looking at the narrative posted above by @TullochArd it was at some point after 15th July 1918. And while his M.C. (if any) could be related to frontier fighting and so we are not restricted to the 11th November, it would still seem like a very narrow window of opportunity. Given his postings it could be a "good guy" award rather than for a specific act of bravery, but then you'd expect it in the 1919 New Years Honours or the Peace Honours from April 1919 onwards, and this would be reflected in the date.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 5 October , 2023 by PRC
Typos

[TullochArd]

...... July 25 1915-16 Jan 1916 2Lt, 1/32 Sikh Pioneers stationed at Sialkot, Punjab then Lt, Asst. Cable Censor, Bombay and then Capt, Camp Officer, Bombay.  This is all recorded under the caveat of no 'Active Service' within a declared 'Theatre of War'.  As such an M.C. could not be awarded as there was no way to meet the specific M.C. criteria of "gallantry during active operations against the enemy".

[Ivor Anderson]

16 hours ago, Chris Hiley said:

The medal is inscribed 'Awarded to Capt. W H Abel 32nd Sikh Pioneers 1918'.

     Still interested to see a photo of this actual medal?  The BWM must be stamped 2158 Pte W H Abel Hampshire R? BWM roll - Ancestry:

Edited 6 October , 2023 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[MaureenE]

There is mention in the scan posted by TullochArd that he was posted to the Indian Munition Board. I think that this would be  Civil Service appointment, perhaps he may be able to be traced in some of the India Office Lists, or History of Services Lists, some of which are online, see the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Directories online, section India List and India Office List. 

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Directories_online#India_List_and_India_Office_List

 

From  FIBIS Fibiwiki page Indian Army List online https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Indian_Army_List_online I looked at the 1918 July edition, which includes a War Services section, but his name was not there. Also his name was not in the 1919 January War Services volume (which is sample pages only, but due to his surname Abel, his name should appear)

Maureen

[Chris Hiley]

Thanks for all your replies! This is my first posting so great to see all the interest.

I've attached a summary of all his medals including the MC. Hope this helps.

WHA Medals and description.pdf

[Ivor Anderson]

Thank you for posting that Chris. It definitely is an MC.

An impressive looking set of medals, including a 1914 star, a Victory medal (inc MiD) & a French Croix de Guerre? Other medal research needed!

Edited 6 October , 2023 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[PhilB]

The star is engraved?

[Ivor Anderson]

William Arnold 2159/240949 was with 5th Hampshire Regt. He got a SWB - enlisted 10 Sept 1914: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/193200:2456?tid=&pid=&queryId=aace7f99ba6ed05ebc110c641e9df029&_phsrc=qzF10582&_phstart=successSource   Got BWM only: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/13634:5119?tid=&pid=&queryId=aace7f99ba6ed05ebc110c641e9df029&_phsrc=qzF10581&_phstart=successSource

N.B. 'The 1/5th Battalion Hampshire Regt.  landed at Karachi in India in November 1914: it remained in India for the rest of the war.'

https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=609

It seems W. H. Abel did not serve in France or any WW1 theatre.  However, his MIC says 'BEF 1914 & transferred to Hants R 2158'. 'Disembarkation date 6. 8. 14'  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/11007304:1262?tid=&pid=&queryId=5966d4306b3996042f5edc98ac8bdf7a&_phsrc=qzF10594&_phstart=successSource

NB comment re medal verification bottom right:  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1604174:5119?tid=&pid=&queryId=5966d4306b3996042f5edc98ac8bdf7a&_phsrc=qzF10596&_phstart=successSource

 

Edited 6 October , 2023 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All, and Chris,

There is no W. H. Abel listed on the India 1935 Jubilee Medal list.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[PRC]

May just be me but are there alternative identity details on the 1914 Star that have been erased? Possibly some variation on "Q.M. Ser". and number could be 253 / 353 / 257 / 357 etc, etc. Would the location be too high up on the medal for such details?

Of course I'm about three years overdue for a sight test, and I'm red-green colour blind to boot, so may just be seeing things

Cheers,
Peter

[mancpal]

The rear of the star does look like it has been erased and re-inscribed. I can’t make out the lettering above Abels name unfortunately.

Simon

P.S. I’ve had a quick look at the reverse of stars on google images and now feel more certain this medal has been erased. The visible anomalies above Abels name are in the correct place to be the original recipients service number. The diagonal scratches I suspect are marks left by a file. A Walter Mitty soldier?

Edited 6 October , 2023 by mancpal

[PRC]

@Chris Hiley.

May be worth your friend checking the naming on the rim of his Victory Medal and even that of the British War Medal. While William was entitled to the latter, there is a possibility that someone has taken a whole group of unrelated medals and renamed them - if indeed that is what has happened, jury is still out!

I take it there is nothing on the "artistic impression" of William wearing seven medal ribbons as a Pioneer Captain to indicate when it was created and by who?

Cheers,
Peter

[mancpal]

If the victory medal has been skimmed it should be noticeable when compared to a standard one as the rim will be narrower. I’ve only once seen a trio that had been doctored and the rim thickness stood out.

Simon

[TullochArd]

We have him as M.C. "Awarded to Capt. W H Abel 32nd Sikh Pioneers 1918"  The date and unit is quite specific. His record (above) shows he was Lt, Asst. Cable Censor, Bombay and then Capt, Camp Officer, Bombay in 1918. In 1918, his unit on commissioning were in Mesopotamia.  Further evidence that he was well settled in Bombay in 1918 was that he was initiated into Gymkhana Lodge 3796, Bombay in March 1918, raised in April 1918 and passed in July 1918.  He is recorded in the Lodge records as Lieut. Army, Age 28 and was still paying subscriptions there in 1921.

Regarding the French CdeG with bronze palm (an Army level citation?) and the Mons Star. As part of 1/5 Hants sailing to Karachi Oct/Nov 1914, as shown on the summary of service, that makes a pretty tight timetable to fit that commendable pair in.  Interestingly 1/5 Hants did serve in the Third Afghan War from May-Jun 1919 which rather loosely connects him to his former units IGS/NW Frontier 1919 bar. Although 1/5 Hants did send occasional drafts to Mesopotamia the bulk of these soldiers ended up with BWM only (and the occasional TF Medal).  Again this is only relevant through a shadowy golden thread of association as WHA was discharged to commission from 1/5 Hants in July 1915. 

Are not the BWM/BVM ranks impressed as at the end of the War and 14-14/15 Stars ranks at date of earning?  If so any Mons Star should read Pte. not Capt.?

 ........ I feel as though I'm not too far off tumbling off the fence on this one.

Edited 6 October , 2023 by TullochArd

[HarryBrook]

There is no listing for him receiving a mention in despatches in Michael Maton's "Honour those mentioned in the Great War", or a Croix de Guerre in Maton's "The recipients of foreign awards".

[PhilB]

We really need to see the data on the BWM & VM. I’ve just noticed that the OP was asking about a friend’s father who was born in 1888. The friend has taken a very long time to enquire about his dad’s medals!