Neil B Posted 6 July , 2023 Share Posted 6 July , 2023 I seem to have opened up a can of worms with the MOD medal office! Although it was within the WW1 perimeters of the forum, it was asked ref his DSO in the gazette 17-4-16 it was aimed at a rebuff on why he was awarded the Defence Medal WW2. This hero's collection was donated to the Houses of Parliament. The MO came back at me because I'm trying to get a DM for him stating they see no reason why he Sir AW should have this, nullifying my quest on the uncle. As they keep moving the goal posts I am deeply disappointed in there actions to say the least, but must keep gnawing away after 25 years + the last 7 months. NOW back to the furnace I cannot find & have gleaned most of my uncles info from WW1 but the one thing need is his date of enlistment...can any help me please? No. Rank & Name etc given if you can Thanks for your help so far. & as you may see on his photo he has a medal the 1914/15 star which I need to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 6 July , 2023 Share Posted 6 July , 2023 (edited) Neil - Is there some reason that you haven't told us your uncle's no, rank and name? I'm sure someone would then be able to look it up. Acknown Edited 6 July , 2023 by Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 6 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 6 July , 2023 Just thought if interested they would ask, as I never got an answer from the fellow who helped out before asking him for contact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 6 July , 2023 Share Posted 6 July , 2023 Surely his Medal Index Card would prove his entitlement to a star (one or the other). Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 6 July , 2023 Share Posted 6 July , 2023 29 minutes ago, Neil B said: Just thought if interested they would ask I'm interested! Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 6 July , 2023 Share Posted 6 July , 2023 Me too. spill the beans, who is he? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 7 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2023 3492 or later 301303 Pte Duncan McIsaac 1/8 A&SH crack it & I'll get a medal for you :-) One pic I take it was early on & the other when he was on leave 1917 note what appears to be a ribbon on his tunic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acknown Posted 7 July , 2023 Share Posted 7 July , 2023 On 06/07/2023 at 14:57, Neil B said: but the one thing need is his date of enlistment According to the War Gratuity Calculator at: https://wargratuity.uk/membership-login/, his war gratuity of £11 indicates enlistment in the month from 03 November 1915. Acknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 7 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2023 I had a medal with his name on it in my hands mid 50's I have the other two & the memorial plaque here. From his obituary in the local paper it reads on the out break of war he joined up. The 1/8 Bn left for F&F May 15 & have to place him there by the end of Dec15 to get a medal for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 7 July , 2023 Admin Share Posted 7 July , 2023 Have you seen this medical report which has his wounds and exact time of death on it? (Image courtesy FMP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 7 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 7 July , 2023 Yes I've got that, but need to place him in F&F at the end of 1915, he was stretcher bearer to start with which implies he was in the pipes & drums as was my other uncle Robert MacSporran hence the chequered Glengarry, then the all black when he became a regimental cook. What is puzzling is what's on his tunic? Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 July , 2023 Share Posted 7 July , 2023 His MIC only shows entitlement to the BWM andVM. Occasionally a second card exists but I’ve not found one. If he was in France or Flanders in 1915 then he would have a star also. He may have enlisted earlier but that doesn’t mean he entered a theatre of war prior to 1/1/16. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 7 July , 2023 Share Posted 7 July , 2023 As he died in April 1918 the medal ribbon will not be that of the 1914-15 Star as that medal was not authorised until December 1918. The ribbon does not look like the Star ribbon to my eyes but if he saw previous service in 1914 then it could possibly be the 1914 Star ribbon which was authorised in April 1917 but I doubt that's what it is. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 7 July , 2023 Share Posted 7 July , 2023 Could it be a MM? It would be good to see what the article says about him. The 1/8th might have left for F+F in 1915 but that doesn’t mean he was with them. Later replacements were common. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 7 July , 2023 Share Posted 7 July , 2023 14 minutes ago, mancpal said: Could it be a MM? It would be good to see what the article says about him. The 1/8th might have left for F+F in 1915 but that doesn’t mean he was with them. Later replacements were common. Simon The MM had crossed my mind but I thought the stripes at the ends of the ribbon looked too narrow. Having said that, the photo is not too sharp and if it is a legitimate ribbon authorised for wear then I reckon the MM is a good candidate. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 8 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2023 Thank to all who answered but I can't work out how to find the MM recipients during WW1 'm only getting US personnel not British. Much as I would like this to be & not the star & close the mission down! One of you above managed to see stripes on the ribbon, even that I can't get :-( & one of you wrote date of death was in April 18 it was May 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 8 July , 2023 Share Posted 8 July , 2023 4 hours ago, Neil B said: Thank to all who answered but I can't work out how to find the MM recipients during WW1 'm only getting US personnel not British. Much as I would like this to be & not the star & close the mission down! One of you above managed to see stripes on the ribbon, even that I can't get :-( & one of you wrote date of death was in April 18 it was May 1918. Yes, my mistake, I should have said May not April. There are definitely dark stripes on the ends of the medal ribbon. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 8 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2023 Tied to a wagon wheel and given the cat of nine tails by the drummers better than Cpl punishment they are more forgiving than the NCO's :-) Could you enhance the pic for me to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 8 July , 2023 Share Posted 8 July , 2023 1 hour ago, Neil B said: Tied to a wagon wheel and given the cat of nine tails by the drummers better than Cpl punishment they are more forgiving than the NCO's :-) Could you enhance the pic for me to see? No can do, I'm a technophobe. In my opinion the ribbon is either for the MM or the French Medaille Militaire. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 8 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2023 & I'm working on steam here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 8 July , 2023 Share Posted 8 July , 2023 (edited) I see stripes on the ribbon also (even on a phone screen). To trace if he was a MM recipient you would need to search the London Gazette for him. Local papers sometimes cover such awards. An even slimmer chance is the relevant war diary though I think it’s an unlikely source. If it’s not a trio ribbon (dates rule that out) and not a MM then perhaps a foreign award (which I’ve just noticed has been suggested just now). Simon Edited 8 July , 2023 by mancpal Punctuation appaling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 8 July , 2023 Share Posted 8 July , 2023 1 minute ago, mancpal said: To trace if he was a MM recipient you would need to search the London Gazette for him. Neil B - The London (and Edinburgh) Gazette is the Official Public Record. I've found no entry for any McIsaac (or MacIsaac) M.M. in either edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 8 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2023 I wouldn't have thought he was MM winner, we in the McIsaac clan were always last in the NAAFI queue never in front :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 8 July , 2023 Share Posted 8 July , 2023 I'd be a little bit cautious in letting the plain A&SH glengarry lead you to specific conclusions Neil B. Here's a photo of a Great War Signals Cadre and there are as many A&SH plain glengarries as there A&SH diced ones. Your relatives 1/8th connection may however lead us back to a link to the old Volunteer Battalion's plain glengarry. I don't have that knowledge but others do. On the newspaper photo it is a scan and a poor one at that. The cap badge is messed up but I cannot help but wonder if I really do see a scroll under the A&SH mess tin ......... and of course sight of the original would tidy up the medal teaser. We need that obituary in the local paper to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil B Posted 9 July , 2023 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2023 Thanks for the info on the glengarry, I had a photo of another uncle (stolen) wearing the diced carrying his drum etc.( Dmr Robert MacSporran) according to his daughter (deceased) they all went over together. another newspaper article taken at Bedford show a half section in all black. The way I understood was the Pipes & Drums retained the diced whilst the rest went over to black....and as one commented years ago there must be a lot of drummers & pipers as they were all black, as nowadays :-) He was a stretcher bearer to start with a role carried out by the Bands, later on changing rolls to a regimental cook I put that down to the two different hats in the pics already posted. That's the second time I've met this expression a mess tin once from a German collector and now you. below is the local paper cutting about his death, they have misspelled the surname which is not unusual in fact I consider changing mine from McIsaac to Schmittd as no-one gets it right here in De :-) It states he joined up at the outbreak of the war again the young ages are usually related to the Band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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