Rafal1971 Posted 31 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2023 I tried to read it but I hate that alphabet. You were right, Andy, that the regiments broke up into battalions during the war and then even in batteries. And these transformations and name changes - garbage as not in the German army So Bert was right. This is the designation of 15 Park Kompanie 2 K.B.F.A.III BAT. I did not deny that this bayonet did not take part in the fighting during the IWW, I was interested in what the number 15 in this marking meant I found another interesting list and photo for tarajan Another photo from Drakegoodman collection. If he has identified the formations correctly Mr (rather a garrison than a pole) has the M71 If he identified the formations correctly Mr (rather a garrison than a front) has an M71 A Mauser C96 toting Bavarian artilleryman from Kgl. Bayer. 1. Feldartillerie-Regiment Prinz-Regent Luitpold Divided reverse. Letter generously translated by Nettenscheider, authored in Augsburg on 4.12.1916, the sender tells his girlfriend he's doing okay thus far. 1520_W.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 31 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2023 Not to start a new thread. As a side note, one question (I don't remember if Noll wrote about it): An example of two Bavarian fonts. Was it an intentional change and did it result from some regulations? Is it just a similarity to Prussian markings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 (edited) How are the dates on these? yes the first one looks like early bavarian unit stamp, visible already on Werder 1869, the second one more as unified prussian standards. To artillery man picture from Drakegoodman, that main weapon was in this case C96 pistol, so i assume the S1871 is in this case a Sidearm as the soldier didnt have a rifle to attach the bayonet, normally by specialised units, which used pistol was still used a sidearm on side, a S1871 is total unpractical and too large siderarm. Anyway as mentioned earlier this is a studio photo, which is different to photos in front areas. Not all what is there could be property of the soldier or used or worried by him on combat place. Edited 31 January , 2023 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 31 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2023 Both are undated. I know this topic with photos in the studio, e.g. when a soldier is holding a rifle with a bayonet, and he has a second bayonet on his belt. In Poland, the fashion for such combined photos appeared during the January Uprising of 1863 (The photographer in studio had uniforms and weapons in the studio) Andy, note that in addition to the bayonet, there is also a knot - but it means the company - not very useful for the photographer, because it is not a universal set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 31 January , 2023 Share Posted 31 January , 2023 Undated speaks for bavarian contract. They stamped different way as prussians. By link to Drakegoodman pictures is possible to look in match better resolution as here, it could be still used as sidearm the S1871. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 31 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2023 link A Mauser C96 toting Bavarian artilleryman from Kgl. Bayer.… | Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 The history of the Bavarian artillery in the GW linked previously, shows the active wartime Batteries of the Bay.2.FussAR ran to 10 numbered Batteries, but there is no mention of the Training or Depot "batteries" of which there could have been several. When I initially saw such a high number (15) I automatically assumed that it would have been one of these additional wartime elements. I don't know how the Bavarian system accounted for these so I may be wrong. The Park kompanie listing towards the end of that book doesn't seem to add up to me. They appear to have been numbered independently to the Batteries, and each Bataillon listing never shows a numbered ParkKompanie attached.? If the 15 is a peacetime ParkKompanie number than surely there is a proper Reference or listing of that somewhere in the records. I can understand that wartime was much more chaotic with such massive Artillery expansion that certain matters could be overlooked. So still nothing proven as far as I can tell.? Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 The number 15 is not a Park-companie number. Just as Prussian "Truppenstempel" stamps means Park-companie of III battalion same as 5. 10 examples scan . letter P-Prussia letter B- Bavarian, p.s. SORRY !!!, i do not speak English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 (edited) Unfortunally here are mixed Regiments with Batallions, prewar with war period, similar shortages You couldnt made, by Batallion it could be that 5. was a Park Kompanie as there existed only 4 batt., by Regiment mostly not as when it started with 2 batallions, park companies were named 9 and 10 by 4 Battery inside of Batallion, by 3 Batallions higher also the Park kompanies started 13,14,15, thats described in 1897 manual for stamping for Fussartillerie, offcoarse You should look for each regiment separately, because they have different artillery canons and equipment, which determined the stamping. There is important the year when it was stamped in. What for configuration was in exact this time the unit, as by 1893 there existed 3 batallions, but in 1891 only 2. Shippinsteel the book is only for 1WK history of the unit, also in that time the park companies were not numbered after Manual 1909. The changes were major in the unit per war period. Edited 1 February , 2023 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 Ahoj, Andy' jednoducha otazka co to podla teba znamena " 2.B.A.F.15.75" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 (edited) asi zle preznacena jednotka B by malo byt na prvej pozicii. Bud ide o preklep a malo by to byt B2AF alebo ide o inu jednotku ak miesto B je R napriklad. write PM Edited 1 February , 2023 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 To Rafal, thanks for link of greater resolution, i believe the binding of the knot on guard, looks so as covers too the barell ring, so its most real this S1871 was used only as a sidearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 Dakujem za vasu odpoved. pozdrawiam .Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 1 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2023 Andy, I won't deny that it can only be a sidearm. However, there is no doubt that in this case - 1916 - that the Bavarian artillery used the M1871 - although only as a sidearm and in the garrison and into the city. Maybe such a weapon (SIDEARM) was assigned to a soldier armed ONLY with a pistol. I think this is to be checked in the uniform regulations. It's for Julian. The photos in the Drakegoodman and Paranoid_woomb collection show Bavarian artillery soldiers (photographed during GW) with a sidearm wz 1892 (made from Werder bayonet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 1 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2023 Drakegoodman collection Exercise, I think. Two soldiers have M1892 sidearm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 6 hours ago, AndyBsk said: Shippinsteel the book is only for 1WK history of the unit, also in that time the park companies were not numbered after Manual 1909. The changes were major in the unit per war period. And SS, remember that the DVE 1909 was for the use of Prussian and its allied states (e.g., Saxony, Wurttemburg, etc,), not for Bayern. Although the Bavarian markings broadly correspond to the Prussian ones, they do not always do so. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 On 31/01/2023 at 13:11, Rafal1971 said: A Mauser C96 toting Bavarian artilleryman from Kgl. Bayer. 1. Feldartillerie-Regiment Prinz-Regent Luitpold Divided reverse. Letter generously translated by Nettenscheider, authored in Augsburg on 4.12.1916, the sender tells his girlfriend he's doing okay thus far. 1520_W.pdf 988.93 kB · 3 downloads 6 hours ago, Rafal1971 said: However, there is no doubt that in this case - 1916 - that the Bavarian artillery used the M1871 - although only as a sidearm and in the garrison and into the city. Maybe such a weapon (SIDEARM) was assigned to a soldier armed ONLY with a pistol. I think this is to be checked in the uniform regulations. It's for Julian. I am taking that troddel to be II Batt, 2nd Komp. Freidag 1914 has for Bavarian FeldArtillerie, 'Wachtmeister= und Vizewachtmaeister sowie Sanitaetsvizefeldwebel,- Pistole 08 - Seitengewehr U/M wird jedoch das Artillerie-Seitengewehr 92 tragen'. So, a 'Seitengewehr U/M' is an S.71, and so he is correctly equipped for one of those ranks. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 5 hours ago, Rafal1971 said: Drakegoodman collection Exercise, I think. Two soldiers have M1892 sidearm In other words, Alles ist in Ordung! I had no idea those ones were actually still around in WW1 - even by in what may be a training unit! They are so old-fashioned with those lion-headed hand guards! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 February , 2023 Share Posted 1 February , 2023 On 31/01/2023 at 13:11, Rafal1971 said: 1520_W.pdf 988.93 kB · 4 downloads I have been meaning to ask - what is the origin of this document - Liste des régiments mentionnés dans le versement 1520 W? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 1 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 1 February , 2023 Starting from the back I know that it is unprofessional in our profession, the source is the Internet (I was looking for Parkcompanies and threw away a pdf) of a footnote, bibliography and I will not even give a link. I just downloaded the PDF. I am glad that you can identify the colors of the wick from the black and white photo. I don't remember the Source, but at the end of the 19th century there was a lot of resistance in the German army to change beautiful cleavers/long bayonets with brass handles to short iron bayonets. How a soldier presented himself on the street in a uniform with colorful colors and a spectacular bayonet - he impressed the ladies . It's like a uniformed French soldier left the garrison in 1914 and returned in uniform in 1918. Abyss! Perhaps the Bavarian Diaries would explain such conservatism. I think the war verified these long-legged lion beauties. I hope that's understandable because my English isn't great either. If you want more bayonet trivia, puzzles, Drake and Paranoid have plenty of them! I love their collections and their knowledge of all bands and GW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 2 February , 2023 Share Posted 2 February , 2023 Presented by JPS, well known collector on Gunboard, Amberg Gew1871 rifle made in 1883 and repair in 1887. Marked in 8.Battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 2 February , 2023 Share Posted 2 February , 2023 15 hours ago, Rafal1971 said: Perhaps the Bavarian Diaries would explain such conservatism. I think the war verified these long-legged lion beauties. I hope that's understandable because my English isn't great either. Zrozumiany! Pod względem uzbrojenia Bawaria była tradycyjnie nieco w tyle za Prusami. Np. długo po Prusach utrzymywali S.71/84 w służbie. (tłumaczenie dzięki uprzejmości Google!) = and your English is fine! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 2 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2023 1520_W.pdf 988.93 kB · 4 downloads I was looking for a while and the document is in this archive, so it was displayed to me. https://archives.bas-rhin.fr/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 2 February , 2023 Share Posted 2 February , 2023 Thanks - I'll follow that up at some point in the future - not now, too much class work to do! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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