PRC Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Birth of a Sidney Saville Mercier, no mothers’ maiden name listed, was recorded in the St Georges Hanover Square District in Q3 1887. That would roughly appear to tie up with other ages documented for Sidney Saville Mercier so far – 26 when he married in October 1912 and 33 when he died in January 1920. No birth of a Sidney \ Sydney P. Mercier registered in England & Wales in the period 1837 to 2006. The 1891 Census of England & Wales is very low on candidates for the family identified on the 1901 Census – see below. One potential is a Christine Mercier, a married woman, aged 34, and a Dress maker, born France but a British subject, who was recorded in one of the dwellings at 23 Montpelier Street, St Margarets, Westminster, London. She describes herself as the wife of the head of the family, but no-one else is living with her. On the 1901 Census of England & Wales there is a 13 year old Sidney Saville Mercier, born St. Margaret, London, who was recorded living at 4, Ormerley Road, Streatham. This was the household of his parents Frank Saville Mercier, (aged 44, a Jeweller trading on his own account, born in the City of London) and Christina Saville Mercier, (aged 44, born Metz, Germany, a French subject). As well as Sidney their other children living with them is their son Frank Saville Mercier, aged 9, born St Margaret, London. There is also a live in servant.Note – fathers name and profession tie up with those given on Sidneys’ marriage certificate. The entry for the household is across two pages, so below is an attempt to stitch the two halfs together. Image courtesy Genes Reunited. (Possible) The 1907 Electoral Register for Earls Court records that a Frank Mercier had moved from 14 Fenelon Road to 12 Fenelon Road. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJN3-N1VJ There was no voter recorded at 12 Fenelon Road on the 1908 edition. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99FL-S9NX-Q?i=165&cc=2228170&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJFY-RLMK He was not the registered voter at 14 Fenelon Road on the 1906 edition. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9FL-M92Q-Y?i=163&cc=2228170&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJNS-5NV6 The possible candidate on the 1911 Census for Sidney \ Sidney (Saville) appears to have been transcribed on Genes Reunited, FindMyPast and familysearch, (and probably Ancestry as well), as Sydney “Mercer” – but looking at the actual return I think it should be Mercier. And he has signed the declaration Sydney P. Mercier. Image courtesy Genes Reunited. This Sydney Mercier, a 24 year old Drapers Manager, living at his place of employment along with thirteen other employees and two servants, gives his place of birth as Brompton, (London) South West. But the place where he was living was 6 – 9 The Parade, High Street, Watford. That’s important because the address given at his marriage in October 1912 for Sidney Saville Mercier was 6 The Parade Watford. Signature comparison between the Census declaration and the marriage register. Not a complete smoking gun – it would still have been possible for Sydney P. Mercier the Drapers Manager to move out and Sidney Saville Mercier to move in or for both of them to be resident together but it is a bit of a stretch. According to the October 1912 marriage register entry by that point father Frank Saville Mercier was deceased. There is no likely match in either the General Registrars Office index of deaths in England & Deaths, deaths at sea or deaths overseas. No obvious probate in the UK between 1901 and 1915. Similarly I couldn’t spot a death or re-marriage of mother Christina. I can’t help but get the feel that we either have two individuals living their lives in each others shadows, or one individual with a family penchant for name changing. Cheers, Peter No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owner. Restrictions may apply to re-use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Sidney Saville Mercier's wife to be Sarah Cromwell Edney can be found on the 1911 census residing at 52 Grove Avenue Twickenham Middlesex occupation Drapers Assistant Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Are we thinking the "Sidney" first served in the ranks as Sydney P Mercier and on being commisioned as 2nd Lt, as Sydney Saville Mercier or is this a possibility Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 25 minutes ago, RaySearching said: Are we thinking the "Sidney" first served in the ranks as Sydney P Mercier and on being commisioned as 2nd Lt, as Sydney Saville Mercier That's where I've been since shortly having a name to look for and before the Hertfordshire Yeomanry reference on the headstone was even available. I think it's more a question now of proving they weren't one and the same rather than proving they were. You can never rule out the power of co-incidence when it comes to genealogy, so you can't discount two separate individuals out entirely, just looking increasingly unlikely. Pure speculation on my part but it could provide a possible explanation for why the part of the Cavalry Records Office who dealt with the Hertfordshire Yeomanry were unaware that he was commissioned and sent his medals out on automatic in 1920. Assuming he was discharged time served, he may have subsequently decided to apply for a commission, (perhaps to avoid the lottery of conscription). He applies as Sidney Saville Mercier, no doubt with decent references, probably including his former C.O. The War Office reviews the application and writes to the Cavalry Records Office for a summary of the details in his other ranks service records. They write back that they have no record of a Sidney Saville Mercier, and probably don't offer any alternative candidates, just saying the record is either lost or mis-filed. The War Office go ahead with offering him a place on the officer cadet course anyway on the strength of his references. If he'd served in a Theatre of War he might have ended up with two sets of medals - it did happen! Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 22 January , 2023 Share Posted 22 January , 2023 Here is S.P Merciers 14-15 star medal entitlement The date of entry in the theater of war indicates he had pre war service Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 Just having a trawl around using 'Mercier Sydney' and FMP have this mention in Kelly's Directory of Devon 1914 https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBOR%2FPDFS%2FKELLYS%2FDEVONSHIRE1914%2F0505&parentid=GBOR%2FPDFS%2FKELLYS%2FDEVONSHIRE1914%2F0505 In case it doesn't load it says that Sydney Mercier is a 'house furnisher; and trades under the name Lethbridge & Mercier, house furnishers of 6, Gerston Terrace No idea how that may help us though! George KELLYS_DEVONSHIRE1914.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 On 21/01/2023 at 10:15, Penfoldisking said: Also he was commissioned in 1917 (London Gazette) Is this Gazette dated First name(s) S Page 10401 Last name Mercier Record set London Gazette 1665-2018 George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 George Whilst it does not help to confirm if S.S.Mercier and S.P.Mercier are one and the same here is the London Gazette entry Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 Thanks Raysearching. My reason for asking was the link to Territorial Forces rather than SS SP- The Gazette entry is for TF it seems George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfoldisking Posted 23 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2023 The entry in Kelly's of Devon is interesting as it has him as Sydney with a Y and not I. Also does not use Saville which is an old family surname. The address is where Sidney Saville Mercier lived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 23 January , 2023 Share Posted 23 January , 2023 Also in the 1919 version so 'just' before he died George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfoldisking Posted 25 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2023 In touch with the Church regarding his burial so hopefully some more info available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfoldisking Posted 25 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2023 On 22/01/2023 at 17:35, PRC said: Birth of a Sidney Saville Mercier, no mothers’ maiden name listed, was recorded in the St Georges Hanover Square District in Q3 1887. That would roughly appear to tie up with other ages documented for Sidney Saville Mercier so far – 26 when he married in October 1912 and 33 when he died in January 1920. No birth of a Sidney \ Sydney P. Mercier registered in England & Wales in the period 1837 to 2006. The 1891 Census of England & Wales is very low on candidates for the family identified on the 1901 Census – see below. One potential is a Christine Mercier, a married woman, aged 34, and a Dress maker, born France but a British subject, who was recorded in one of the dwellings at 23 Montpelier Street, St Margarets, Westminster, London. She describes herself as the wife of the head of the family, but no-one else is living with her. On the 1901 Census of England & Wales there is a 13 year old Sidney Saville Mercier, born St. Margaret, London, who was recorded living at 4, Ormerley Road, Streatham. This was the household of his parents Frank Saville Mercier, (aged 44, a Jeweller trading on his own account, born in the City of London) and Christina Saville Mercier, (aged 44, born Metz, Germany, a French subject). As well as Sidney their other children living with them is their son Frank Saville Mercier, aged 9, born St Margaret, London. There is also a live in servant.Note – fathers name and profession tie up with those given on Sidneys’ marriage certificate. The entry for the household is across two pages, so below is an attempt to stitch the two halfs together. Image courtesy Genes Reunited. (Possible) The 1907 Electoral Register for Earls Court records that a Frank Mercier had moved from 14 Fenelon Road to 12 Fenelon Road. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJN3-N1VJ There was no voter recorded at 12 Fenelon Road on the 1908 edition. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99FL-S9NX-Q?i=165&cc=2228170&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJFY-RLMK He was not the registered voter at 14 Fenelon Road on the 1906 edition. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9FL-M92Q-Y?i=163&cc=2228170&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJNS-5NV6 The possible candidate on the 1911 Census for Sidney \ Sidney (Saville) appears to have been transcribed on Genes Reunited, FindMyPast and familysearch, (and probably Ancestry as well), as Sydney “Mercer” – but looking at the actual return I think it should be Mercier. And he has signed the declaration Sydney P. Mercier. Image courtesy Genes Reunited. This Sydney Mercier, a 24 year old Drapers Manager, living at his place of employment along with thirteen other employees and two servants, gives his place of birth as Brompton, (London) South West. But the place where he was living was 6 – 9 The Parade, High Street, Watford. That’s important because the address given at his marriage in October 1912 for Sidney Saville Mercier was 6 The Parade Watford. Signature comparison between the Census declaration and the marriage register. Not a complete smoking gun – it would still have been possible for Sydney P. Mercier the Drapers Manager to move out and Sidney Saville Mercier to move in or for both of them to be resident together but it is a bit of a stretch. According to the October 1912 marriage register entry by that point father Frank Saville Mercier was deceased. There is no likely match in either the General Registrars Office index of deaths in England & Deaths, deaths at sea or deaths overseas. No obvious probate in the UK between 1901 and 1915. Similarly I couldn’t spot a death or re-marriage of mother Christina. I can’t help but get the feel that we either have two individuals living their lives in each others shadows, or one individual with a family penchant for name changing. Cheers, Peter No new IP was created in producing the above and all image rights remain with the current owner. Restrictions may apply to re-use. Peter Today I have found his fathers probate, he died 25 Oct 1908 living at 54 Mortimer St. Also found that his father was Jewish and changed his name from Joseph Francis Samual to Frank Saville, by deed poll in 1883. This ties in with his probate as he left everything to Henry & Richard Lyon Samual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfoldisking Posted 28 February , 2023 Author Share Posted 28 February , 2023 Many thanks to All, I have now submitted a Missing Commemoration request to CWGC. I have been able to prove that Acting or Lance Sgt Sidney/Sydney Mercier and 2nd Lt Sidney Saville Mercier were the same person RaySearching thanks for the Pension Records, the named Fiancee attended my Soldiers funeral (Romsey press cutting) so another link added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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