Blue Patrol Frock

[Piper42nd]

I have several questions about this article of clothing:

Is it a frock or a jacket and why?  I've never really understood the difference between jackets, frocks and tunics.

Is this for officers only?

On what occasions would it be worn?

Approximately in what time period was it worn?

Thank you

Harvey

[Acknown]

Harvey - picture required, I fancy.

Acknown

[Allan1892]

Is there supposed to be an image in your post?

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/11/2022 at 17:28, Piper42nd said:

I have several questions about this article of clothing:

Is it a frock or a jacket and why?  I've never really understood the difference between jackets, frocks and tunics.

Is this for officers only?

On what occasions would it be worn?

Approximately in what time period was it worn?

Thank you

Harvey

It’s an enormously complicated subject because as a garment it has evolved and taken on slightly different uses over a century plus.  I’ll try to explain a history of its evolution as simply as I can.

1.  First and foremost, in British and associated Dominions usage a tunic is a full dress garment and the most expensive in quality for both, officers, for whom it was made bespoke, and other ranks, for whom it was made in stock sizes but then modified to fit by unit tailors.  Men of odd sizes and senior NCOs rated as ‘1st class battalion staff’ (all nowadays warrant officers, but not necessarily back then) were also made bespoke.  The most expensive grade of cloth issued by the Ordnance supply chain was used.  Tunics were also more generously adorned with decorative piping and facings (usually collar and cuffs).  
Together with trousers and best headdress the entire uniform was designated as ‘Full Dress’.  Entirely separately, undress upper garments were initially known as frocks and later as jackets.  They were made of a coarser cloth, were more loosely tailored to facilitate layering and, unlike tunics, commonly included two or more outer pockets.  In hot climates they were unlined. 

2.  Around 1891 officers were ordered to provide themselves with a scarlet patrol jacket that incorporated two patch pockets on the breast and in the skirts, for use in addition to the braided (aka frogged) blue patrol jacket routinely worn since the 1850s.  In 1896 the latter was to be replaced by a blue version of the scarlet jacket thus providing each officer with two identically constructed jackets, one in scarlet, and one in blue (less rifle regiments).  Scottish units had similar garments, but with the Scottish cutaway front.  These were the first field garments with no less than four practical (functional) exterior pockets and minimal decoration.  Rank was worn on shoulder straps and in successive officers’ ‘dress regulations’ the garment has, over time, been referred to indiscriminately as both, a serge frock, and a serge jacket.  
The blue version of the jacket immediately became popular, probably because it was easier to keep clean than the scarlet version, and through that popularity it laid the ground for its continued use, with minimal modifications, up until today.

From 1902 the scarlet patrol jacket was replaced by the reintroduction of a dark blue, knee length ‘frock coat’, but in a new, double breasted design. This left the officer with a choice between blue patrol jacket and frock coat for in barracks duty, including courts martial, and other administrative routine.  In Highland regiments a white shell jacket was used instead of the frock coat, but a blue patrol jacket had become universal across the army, and not just the infantry.  In 1913 a new, ‘optional pattern’ was introduced to complement the traditional, “universal” version.  The optional version had an open, stepped rever collar to facilitate wear with a white shirt and black, ribbed silk necktie.  Regimental commanding officers were advised that wear should be consistent.   The original, universal pattern was designated Type A and the optional pattern Type B.  The latter version never really took off and today is only worn by officers of the Royal Marines.

3.  Other ranks (enlisted men) had long had a scarlet undress frock for use when full dress wasn’t appropriate, but this had no external breast pockets.  Around 1898 this began to change and, perhaps influenced by the officers version, a later pattern of scarlet frock was introduced with breast pockets and used by infantry and heavy cavalry.  Light cavalry and other arms such as the artillery had a dark blue equivalent, but in both cases there were initially no skirt pockets.  Bizarrely, for a period straddling the turn of the century, there was also optional ‘cycling dress’ that was in effect a dark blue frock with breast pockets.  From just after the Boer War the same blue frock began to appear with pockets on the skirt too, but it’s not entirely clear how this frock was funded and sourced.  Nevertheless, it became widely seen as a smart form of winter undress in barracks, seemingly worn with the same ‘Oxford mixture’, blue serge, or tartan trousers (‘trews’) as were ordered for wear with scarlet upper garments.  It’s possible that these blue frocks, that were effectively a soldier’s version (in coarser serge) of the officers blue patrol jacket, were also ‘optional’ and funded regimentally via canteen profits.  It is unclear.  WW1 interrupted normal routines and apart from units remaining in India, blue patrol uniform was not much seen in wartime Britain other than via its occasional wear by senior officers.

4.  After WW1 the peacetime army tentatively returned to its old routines and, broadly speaking, although the home establishment stayed largely in drab khaki (except for the Guards) the troops on foreign service in India and associated colonies returned to using some degree of coloured uniform in Winter for guards and reviews, largely for presentational reasons.  There is mention of optional blue patrol jackets in clothing regulations circa 1926, and it seems likely that this is repetition of an earlier, prewar policy that had fallen into abeyance.

5.  The next big step in the evolution of blue patrols occurred for the Coronation of King George VI, when it was realised that the wider army had no colourful uniform (representing British tradition) outside of the Brigade of Guards and Household Cavalry.  When the organisation of the Coronation was determined it was agreed that each regiment would provide a formal ‘contingent’ and that a blue patrol style of uniform was to be provided and worn by those contingents only.  Rather like the recent Queen’s funeral, this included marching and street lining parties.  The Coronation went off successfully and fast forward to another Coronation, this time for Queen Elizabeth II, and it was again decided that a blue patrol uniform that had been on experimental trials since around 1947 (and based upon that from 1937) would be provided.  Originally intended to be worn with a scarlet cotton web (canvas) ‘girdle’ (waistbelt), this uniform was by that stage designated as ‘No1 Dress’, but it was simply blue patrols by another name.  To save money the scarlet waist belt was abandoned once the trial was over in favour of obsolescent whitened buff leather belts (of which there were still plenty in storage), and that also solved the need for bayonet frogs.

Blue patrols now form the basis of a simple ceremonial uniform for all, less military bands and the Household Division, including cadets at RMAS Sandhurst, and even civic Lords Lieutenant and their deputies throughout the counties of the United Kingdom.

 

 

 

 

Edited 31 January by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

That is an excellent summary FROGSMILE.  Thank you for that and the wonderful images.

Harvey 

[Piper42nd]

I forgot to ask what the rank stripes or GC stripes would have looked like.  Silver or white on a matching blue background?

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/11/2022 at 18:25, Piper42nd said:

That is an excellent summary FROGSMILE.  Thank you for that and the wonderful images.

Harvey 

I’m glad to help, this subject has been raised a number of times, most recently by @Guepe.  It’s a uniform with a long and highly influential history and even formed the basis for the uniform of the Police and Fire Services.

Even the ubiquitous WW1 (1902) service dress was simply a blue patrol uniform style cut, but made up in drab (brownish khaki) serge.  The back had the famous patrol seam from shoulder blades tapering down to waist to provide simple shaping.  The seam has been readopted for the contemporary khaki service dress. 

Edited 16 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/11/2022 at 18:30, Piper42nd said:

I forgot to ask what the rank stripes or GC stripes would have looked like.  Silver or white on a matching blue background?

Harvey 

Rank stripes were originally usually gold on scarlet or blue, but after the adoption of blue patrols (No1 Dress) as the basis of a universal ceremonial uniform in the late 1940s, piping and rank backing colour was laid down in ‘materiel regulations’ for each corps and regiment.  The piping was only around the shoulder straps and did not apply to commissioned officers.  It was usually based on the regiment’s/corp’s official ‘facing colour’.  For example, Gloucestershire Regiment yellow, Highland light Infantry, buff.  Royal regiments, scarlet.

Notice how contemporary collars are at least 1/2 an inch lower than the original patterns.

Note also the scarlet web waist belts issued during the 1947-49 pattern trials, and then the initial issue, below.  This uniform then formed the basis of the No 1 dress worn at the 1953 Coronation and subsequently.  You can see the piped shoulder straps and coloured rank backing, with the officers wearing twisted bullion shoulder cords with metal rank stars, etc. superimposed.  The scarlet waist belt for those below warrant officer was abandoned as a cost saving measure and because it was without a bayonet frog appropriate for ceremonial.

Edited 14 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

So the private, corporal and sergeant in your photos had gold stripes on red background?   It's hard to differentiate the red from the blue.

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/11/2022 at 18:59, Piper42nd said:

So the private, corporal and sergeant in your photos had gold stripes on red background?   It's hard to differentiate the red from the blue.

Harvey 

The Royal Engineers have blue backings, as their facings are traditionally in garter blue.

Below are Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters with green facings (piping and backing to stripes).

The black and white photo shows the Coronation contingent representing the Royal Welsh Fusiliers circa 1953.

Edited 29 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

I was wondering about the pioneer and gymnastics instructor. 

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:08, Piper42nd said:

I was wondering about the pioneer and gymnastics instructor. 

Oh I see.  Yes, the pioneer is RWF and definitely on scarlet.  I’m unsure about the gymnastics instructor as I don’t know his unit.  At that time the Army Gymnastics Staff had scarlet, as did the School of Musketry, granted along with infantry sashes for SNCOs.  

Edited 19 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

I have it now.  Thank you once again for all the information. 

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

45 minutes ago, Piper42nd said:

I have it now.  Thank you once again for all the information. 

Harvey 

I did say it was a complex evolution! 😉

Edited 10 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Are these stripes correct for pre-ww1?

Also, most of the earlier images show the jacket worn without a belt.  Is that correct?

It's probably apparent that I'm trying to assemble a pre-ww1 uniform for display. 

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

On 12/11/2022 at 15:54, Piper42nd said:

Are these stripes correct for pre-ww1?

Also, most of the earlier images show the jacket worn without a belt.  Is that correct?

It's probably apparent that I'm trying to assemble a pre-ww1 uniform for display. 

Harvey 

Yes the stripes are fine for Royal regiments and that particular type have not changed since prewar apart from using synthetic bullion lace (commonly ‘Mylar’) in the last decade+
Belts were worn only when on parade (i.e. in formed bodies), and were usually the whitened buff leather (a finely sueded surface) of Slade Wallace type, although from around 1903 there was also the same belt in brown leather that began also to be used in some units.  I’ve rarely seen the uniform used with any belt at all before 1937 though.

When belts were worn in 1937 Officers and Warrant Officers Class 1 generally used their Sam Browne belts.  Staff sergeants of the 1st class (all becoming Warrant Officers Class 2 after 1915) usually wore the white, or later brown leather belt with ‘sword carriage’ (a long and a short sling) that when swords were not worn was clipped together at the ends.

NB.

1. From 1949 when the uniform was co-opted as Ceremonial dress for all arms, less the Brigade of Guards and Household Cavalry, then ‘dismounted corps’ officers were ordered to wear the crimson silk waist sash.  Those of ‘mounted corps’ wore the diagonal pouch belt in lieu.

2. Infantry sergeants** scarlet sashes were not worn with blue patrol uniforms (or service dress) until after 1922.  They had hitherto been for scarlet garments and summer uniforms (whites, etc.) only. 

3. It’s important to remember that until 1937 blue patrols was very much a functional, undress uniform for wear in barracks, and not intended for ceremonial.

**including those authorised to dress as infantry sergeants such as School of Musketry, Army Gymnastic Staff, (and earlier on Armourer Sergeants attached to infantry, Staff Clerks, and Army Pay Corps).

Edited 29 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Excellent.  I've another couple of questions if I may.

It would appear that collar badges were used by some regiments but not all.  Does that sound right?

Would trade badges have been cloth with a red backing or brass or both?  

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

On 12/11/2022 at 16:26, Piper42nd said:

Excellent.  I've another couple of questions if I may.

It would appear that collar badges were used by some regiments but not all.  Does that sound right?

Would trade badges have been cloth with a red backing or brass or both?  

Harvey 

1. No waist belts other than on parade in formed bodies under arms, which did not usually involve blue patrol uniform before 1937.

2. Most commonly no collar badges on officers blue uniform until after the 2nd Boer War, when the scarlet patrol jacket was replaced by the blue frock coat (which did have collar badges).  Quite a number of infantry regiments did not wear them on blue patrols even then, on a ‘less-is-more’ principle.

3. Many regiments did wear cloth backings to the cloth and bullion skill at arms and trade badges, especially regiments with Royal appellation.  However, different regiments often adopted their own practice and as it was an undress uniform usually worn in barracks senior officers visiting units tended not to interfere.  Metal badges weren’t routinely worn on blue patrols as they ran the risk of damaging the cloth.  The usual rule was that badge backings on blues would, if favoured, match the backing of the rank stripes.

4. For commissioned officers a starched white collar was worn inside the blue patrols collar and secured in place by studs. It was to protrude by 1/4 inch.
 

Edited 29 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Here is a good circa post WW1 SNCOs Scottish blue patrol jacket.  The fine detail depends on which regiment you depict.  He is a colour sergeant instructor of musketry.

Edited 25 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

Perfect.  That's exactly what I needed.  Thank you so much FROGSMILE.  I'll send you a photo when it's finished. 

Harvey 

[FROGSMILE]

On 12/11/2022 at 17:17, Piper42nd said:

Perfect.  That's exactly what I needed.  Thank you so much FROGSMILE.  I'll send you a photo when it's finished. 

Harvey 

I’ll be interested to see it Harvey.

 

Edited 17 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Piper42nd]

@FROGSMILE I was looking at your photos again and two more questions occurred to me:

The buttons appear to be all the same size unlike the SD jacket which has, I believe, 5 large closure buttons and 6 small ones on the pocket flaps and shoulder straps.  Does it appear that way to you as well?

If the first answer is yes do you think they're large or small?  It seems to me most of the photos show large ones.

Thanks, Harvey 

[Piper42nd]

In case it helps here are two photos of the jacket I'm working on.  One shows the large buttons and the other the small.  

Harvey 

[Jerry B]

The small buttons look wrong for the front closure

[Piper42nd]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:58, FROGSMILE said:

Here is a good circa post WW1 SNCOs Scottish blue patrol jacket for a non Royal regiment.  The fine detail depends on which regiment you depict.  He is a colour sergeant instructor of musketry.

Here's a photo from earlier in the post.  Could I ask what you think of these?  Large or small?  All the same size?