Old bible found any info appreciated

[FROGSMILE]

46 minutes ago, PhilB said:

Fulwood Barracks is allegedly haunted! I attested there many years ago. I didn’t see any ghosts but it is quite an oppressive building for one’s first look inside a barracks.

Fulwood Barracks, Preston

Now host to records, artefacts and achievements of past infantry Lancashire regiments, which are now part of The Duke of Lancaster Regiment established in 2006. The Barracks in Preston preserve the history of 120 units of the armed forces, including the Home Guard and Cadets etc. 

The most haunted part of the Barracks is the Old Officers Mess. In 1910 a witness only know as M.A.R. was awakened by a gale force storm ripping through the town. He got of bed to close the shutters to silence the deafening noise of the wind and windows rattling. 

He fell asleep again, and was rudely awakened again to a sound resembling a thunder clap. Sitting awake to get a sense of how the storm was progressing, his eyes set upon the image of what appeared to be an illuminating figure near the foot of his bed. M.A.R saw the figure was wearing a belt, he gasped with shock and lay back down on his bed. The figure just gradually vanished before him. 

So frightened by his experience he ran to the next quarter of a Lieutenant and was offered to sleep on the camp bed with him, which M.A.R quite happily accepted. He was made fun of the next day and offers to sleep in his quarter were accepted and they slept well. Other past occupants of the room sensed a peculiar atmosphere n the room.

It is reported a tragic incident had occurred in that very room years before. In the Garrison Chapel a friendly but mischievous spirit resides there. Cleaning equipment would move, a brass pot flew across the room and a television crew’s equipment refused to work in certain areas. Roman soldiers are seen from the waist up walking along an old roman road near the barracks, not forgetting the terrain has changed and elevated over last 2000 years.

 

I think the haunted legend originated with McCaffrey (aka McCafferty).  If you search in old newspaper archives I’m sure you’ll find more.  I first heard of the ghost around 40-years ago.  Search for “the ghost of” etc (both spellings), his first name was Patrick.

Edited 26 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

9 minutes ago, Lisa84 said:

Great: That looks like Geoffrey ACWORTH, 18 Chobham Rd, [London] N 22 ??

M

Edit: A quick web search suggests London N 22 is currently Haringey including Bowes Park, New Southgate, Noel Park, Wood Green - that might set the genealogists with access to Censuses off on the trail.

Edited 26 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
Edit

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Kath said:

https://www.lancashireinfantrymuseum.org.uk/
Lancashire Infantry Musem

Thank you Kath.  I’m glad it still exists even if its name has changed.  I knew it as the Regimental Museum of the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment, having not that long been revamped from fulfilling the same function for the old Loyal’s.

Edited 26 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

30 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

A quick web search suggests London N 22 is currently Haringey including Bowes Park, New Southgate, Noel Park, Wood Green - that might set the genealogists with access to Censuses off on the trail.

William ACWORTH and Geoffrey ACWORTH

Of course the annotations need not be contemporaneus - in fact possibly/probably not = Perhaps a hand-me-down from father to son ???

I have very little access to genealogical search tools but the 1921 Census has a Geoffrey ACWORTH b.1920 and Annie ACWORTH b.1892, in Tottenham, Edmonton - certainly not very far away from N 22

???

M

Edit: a quick FreeBMD search reveals a William Alfred ACWORTH born in Edmonton in Q2 1890 [which would seem to potentially match the 5 April 1890 date in the Bible]

Edited 26 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
Edit

[Lisa84]

2 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

William ACWORTH and Geoffrey ACWORTH

Of course the annotations need not be contemporaneus - in fact possibly/probably not = Perhaps a hand-me-down from father to son ???

I have very little access to genealogical search tools but the 1921 Census has a Geoffrey ACWORTH b.1920 and Annie ACWORTH b.1892, in Tottenham - certainly not very far away from N 22

???

M

Thanks for that,  it’s a lot more than I can find. Like I said I am hopeless at researching genealogy so my search would be a dead end I’m sure as I do not know how to do searches. I typed the said name into the web browser and a few things came up but seems to be a common name so difficult to know if I’m on the right track. 

[Matlock1418]

4 minutes ago, Lisa84 said:

Thanks for that,

Who said it was any good?  I'm certainly not sure.

I have also just edited my previous post  ... 

I'm just hanging on in until a real genealogist turns up - I particularly have one in mind but I'm not overly keen to bounce him onto the case as I know he has a lot of other things on the go.  But hoping that he just happens to turn up!

M

[charlie962]

William A Acworth born 5/4/90 is living in 1939 in Tottenham with his wife Annie and son John M born 26/1/24 and one other. 

Same dob as Bible and a woodturner in 1939 as he was in his 1907 attestation. 

Charlie 

Edit. There's a marriage registered q1 1919 Edmonton of a William A Acworth to Annie Fitz-Patrick.

Edited 26 October , 2022 by charlie962

[Matlock1418]

5 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Born Enfield,

William ACWORTH

I'm not a Londoner but think Enfield and Tottenham might perhaps both be considered Edmonton for birth registrations [as recent post for William Alfred ACWORTH ] ???

Now where's a proper genealogist - and with better tools than me?

M

5 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

William A Acworth born 5/4/90 is living in 1939 in Tottenham with his wife Annie and son John M born 26/1/24 and one other. 

Same dob as Bible and a woodturner in 1939 as he was in his 1907 attestation. 

You came!

M

Edit: Now wondering if that "IA" could possibly actually be "JA"? - Making a father and two sons/brothers?

Edited 26 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
edit

[Lisa84]

7 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

William ACWORTH

I'm not a Londoner but think Enfield and Tottenham might perhaps both be considered Edmonton for birth registrations [as recent post for William Alfred ACWORTH ] ???

Now where's a proper genealogist - and with better tools than me?

M

You came!

M

Edit: Now wondering if that "IA" could possibly actually be "JA"? - Making a father and two sons/brothers?

I have just been looking on the internet and found these Acworths . A William , a Geoffrey wondering if this may be the right family it sure does look like it but yet to find out. I have sent the creator a msg to see  , I also found the book in Dorset and it mentions Dorset in one of the below pics 

[charlie962]

The army record 1907 shows William son of Alfred Elija and Lydia.

[Lisa84]

2 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

The army record 1907 shows William son of Alfred Elija and Lydia.

Yes I think you are right 

I have also found the same address on this as the one written in the Bible 

18 Cobham Road !!!  

just figuring out how to find possible living family members 

[Matlock1418]

8 minutes ago, Lisa84 said:

I have just been looking on the internet and found these Acworths . A William , a Geoffrey wondering if this may be the right family it sure does look like it but yet to find out. I have sent the creator a msg to see  

2 minutes ago, Lisa84 said:

just figuring out how to find possible living family members 

Please let us know how you get on.

M

[Lisa84]

5 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

The army record 1907 shows William son of Alfred Elija and Lydia.

Do you have a screen shot of any army records at all please ? That would be amazing  

[Lisa84]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

William A Acworth born 5/4/90 is living in 1939 in Tottenham with his wife Annie and son John M born 26/1/24 and one other. 

Same dob as Bible and a woodturner in 1939 as he was in his 1907 attestation. 

Charlie 

Edit. There's a marriage registered q1 1919 Edmonton of a William A Acworth to Annie Fitz-Patrick.

This is sounding correct 

thank you soo much 

[Matlock1418]

Now ... returning to a big outstanding question ... What did William Alfred ACWORTH do during WW1?

He would have been of the correct age to have served in the miltary [statistically probably the Army] - having perhaps voluntarily enlisted before or after the war started or been conscripted from 1916 - provided he was considered fit enough of course. 

Or unless he had successfully objected?? [Can such Objectors be searched??] Or unless he had a useful 'reserved occupation'??  Or perhaps served with a voluntary organisation suchas the Red Cross/St John Ambulance??  Or could he have been in prison?? So many options!

I have absolutely no idea if a potentially handy set of documents might still remain for the London N 22 area, nor access to such, but in early and late 1918 and 1919 the electoral system drew up Absent Voters Lists, typically very often indicating soldiers/sailors/airmen who were away from home and commonly goving thier rank unit and number.

Although there might be fluidity if he was renting most men and their families stayed pretty much in a limited locale.  His post-war life rather suggests that this was also pretty likely to be a fairly static resident earlier in it.  Perhaps we can 'reverse engineer' from his likely address(es) which at first glance probably would be N 22 or thereabouts. 

Finding the exact pre-war Census entry might help with an earlier address for 1911.  And more exactly seeing that 1921 Census and its address [and occupation possibly] would help too.

So, thereafter following on ... the next questions ... Do AVL exist for the N 22 area? ...and ... Can anyone find such an AVL entry(ies) to give us a handy steer towards any potential military service? [Or other option?]

Another question springs to mind  ... What does his 1919 Marriage certificate have as his occupation? 

Similarly, but less likely to be particulatly helpful with our current line of questionng ... For his son's 1920 Birth Certificate [Geoffrey] - What occupation?

So many more questions, but their answers may perhaps bring us nearer to the answer to the big outstanding WW1 one.

M

Edited 27 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
add

[Michelle Young]

10 hours ago, Lisa84 said:

Do you have a screen shot of any army records at all please ? That would be amazing  

From the rules

 

Members may NOT use the GWF as a platform to ask parties who are subscribers to various subscription sites to download material on their behalf or to post it on the GWF. 

[PhilB]

If he deserted pre-WW1, it could be that he served under an assumed name.

[Matlock1418]

11 minutes ago, PhilB said:

If he deserted pre-WW1, it could be that he served under an assumed name.

And of course that would be a complication!!

Somewhat surprisingly it might seem many men did re-enlist [perhaps discovering life was better in than out, or for patriotic etc. reasons] but as a former deserter I suspect under an alias it would probably have to have been a voluntary enlistment rather than conscription.

M

Edited 27 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
add

[Lisa84]

12 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Now ... returning to a big outstanding question ... What did William Alfred ACWORTH do during WW1?

He would have been of the correct age to have served in the miltary [statistically probably the Army] - having perhaps voluntarily enlisted before or after the war started or been conscripted from 1916 - provided he was considered fit enough of course. 

Or unless he had successfully objected?? [Can such Objectors be searched??] Or unless he had a useful 'reserved occupation'??  Or perhaps served with a voluntary organisation suchas the Red Cross/St John Ambulance??  Or could he have been in prison?? So many options!

I have absolutely no idea if a potentially handy set of documents might still remain for the London N 22 area, nor access to such, but in early and late 1918 and 1919 the electoral system drew up Absent Voters Lists, typically very often indicating soldiers/sailors/airmen who were away from home and commonly goving thier rank unit and number.

Although there might be fluidity if he was renting most men and their families stayed pretty much in a limited locale.  His post-war life rather suggests that this was also pretty likely to be a fairly static resident earlier in it.  Perhaps we can 'reverse engineer' from his likely address(es) which at first glance probably would be N 22 or thereabouts. 

Finding the exact pre-war Census entry might help with an earlier address for 1911.  And more exactly seeing that 1921 Census and its address [and occupation possibly] would help too.

So, thereafter following on ... the next questions ... Do AVL exist for the N 22 area? ...and ... Can anyone find such an AVL entry(ies) to give us a handy steer towards any potential military service? [Or other option?]

Another question springs to mind  ... What does his 1919 Marriage certificate have as his occupation? 

Similarly, but less likely to be particulatly helpful with our current line of questionng ... For his son's 1920 Birth Certificate [Geoffrey] - What occupation?

So many more questions, but their answers may perhaps bring us nearer to the answer to the big outstanding WW1 one.

M

So from what I’ve found is that he was the Husband of Ann Fitzpatrick - they married 1919 in
Edmonton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom P

he then later went on to marry 
Eva Laura White
- married 1959 in
Edmonton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom

his son I believe was Geoffrey and John Acworth they also had a daughter but that name is unknown unfortunately 

william died in April 1975 at age 85 in Edmonton 

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Lisa84 said:

So from what I’ve found is that he was the Husband of Ann Fitzpatrick - they married 1919 in
Edmonton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom P

Thank you = You could help by finding/getting/asking the profile-manager about that MC and checking his occupation [William ACWORTH's that is!]

M

Edited 27 October , 2022 by Matlock1418

[Matlock1418]

4 hours ago, PhilB said:

If he deserted pre-WW1, it could be that he served under an assumed name.

Lisa,

Might also be worth checking with that 'Profile Manager' [Ian Acworth] if he has physical access to any medal(s) - I suspect not or else he probably would have posted the details.

[A recipient's details would be impressed, that's pressed not engraved, in the rear of a possible 1914 or 1914-15 Star and on the rims of any British War Medal and Victory Medal - not least a name, number and unit!]

Obviously if he's not got physical access to any medal(s) but he thinks he has found details on documents please find out what details and from where - we can then review to see if we think they also apply, or not!

Good luck.

M

 

[Lisa84]

27 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Lisa,

Might also be worth checking with that 'Profile Manager' [Ian Acworth] if he has physical access to any medal(s) - I suspect not or else he probably would have posted the details.

[A recipient's details would be impressed, that's pressed not engraved, in the rear of a possible 1914 or 1914-15 Star and on the rims of any British War Medal and Victory Medal - not least a name, number and unit!]

Obviously if he's not got physical access to any medal(s) but he thinks he has found details on documents please find out what details and from where - we can then review to see if we think they also apply, or not!

Good luck.

M

 

Will do I have been emailing him today he is a cousin of the late William Acworth , we now know Alfred is Williams middle name . down the family line. He has been very surprised that the Bible contained the information I have gave him. I forwarded on pictures on the Bible so that he could see. The curragh camp which is quoted on the part with 1st Loyal lancs is in Ireland, and did in fact at one point have royal horse artillery based there after looking for history about it I have discovered that there was a room within the camp called Sandes Home. They were a religious charity that often gave out bibles to the soldiers so I’m presuming this is where it originally came from. Ian Acworth the cousin ( twice removed ) whom I’m emailing says he’s looked for army documentation but came to no luck. He is in agreement with me that the Bible was originally William Alfred Acworths and then passed down to his sons Geoffrey Acworth, John Acworth and possibly daughter ( initialed I.A in Bible but more than like to be a letter L.A for the name Lydia-Anne which was their sister. 
  

[FROGSMILE]

The 1st Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment arrived in Ireland and were based at Kinsale in 1904.  In 1906 the battalion moved to ‘the Curragh’ (as it was styled) where they remained until 1908, at which point they moved to England (Tidworth, Hants). 

Edited 27 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Lisa84]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

The 1st Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment arrived in Ireland and were based at Kinsale in 1904.  In 1906 the battalion moved to ‘the Curragh’ (as it was styled) where they remained until 1908, at which point they moved to England (Tidworth, Hants). 

Thanks for this that’s great information funny enough my husband and I have just moved from Tidworth all the way to Kinloss Scotland as he’s still serving  

[PhilB]

Another example of Soldier`s Testament. I suspect that the Colmack chap is the man who presented it.