Looking for Fred White

[Arthur S]

Hey I am trying to find information on my wife's great grandfather Fred ,, Jack '' White he was 16 when he enlisted 

Fred,, Jack '' white 

Born 15 August 1898 

In horbury, West Yorkshire, England 

I don't know in wich battalion he fought or were he was send to any information would help best regards 

 

The pictures I am adding are all from my wife's mother 

 

[Allan1892]

The insignia on his left arm looks like the Signal Corps

[Arthur S]

I found a picture with his battalion 

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Allan1892 said:

The insignia on his left arm looks like the Signal Corps

Not sure it is RE (Signals) but does look like a Signaller's badge [from an infantry regiment I reckon] - with one good conduct inverted chevron below it.

Now we have another photo = any chance of a close-up on the cap badge(s) please?

M

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Matlock1418
chevron

[Mark1959]

Think the cap badge on the second pic looks like KOYLI - Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Mark1959

[Allan1892]

Took the liberty of turning the image around.

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

Think the cap badge on the second pic looks like KOYLI - Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

That was my thought too - a very small cap badge compared to others.

M

[Mark1959]

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/3806989:1262?_phsrc=RqI3883&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=fred&gsln=white&ml_rpos=1&queryId=7272f0e919e01b1b73d9bb20b607ebe4

Address on MIC is Blackheath, London but..

FWR transcribed  says RAF 405756 was on wounded list 10/6/18. Nok Address is Horbury near Wakefield. 

KOYLI 4154

RFC P201666

RAF 405756

 

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Arthur S said:

horbury, West Yorkshire, England

Did he have any brothers?  Lose any brothers?

Got a couple of possibilities for brothers = Clifford Oakes WHITE, 2569, KOYLI - KiA 19-12-15 and Henry Rushforth WHITE, 358, Yorkshire Regiment

Their mother Ada WHITE, Stringers Yard, High Street, Horbury, nr. Wakefield - she received a Dependants Gratuity and a Separation Allowance respectively.

M

 

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Matlock1418
amend and add

[Allan1892]

8 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/3806989:1262?_phsrc=RqI3883&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=fred&gsln=white&ml_rpos=1&queryId=7272f0e919e01b1b73d9bb20b607ebe4

Address on MIC is Blackheath, London but..

FWR transcribed  says RAF 405756 was on wounded list 10/6/18. Nok Address is Horbury near Wakefield. 

KOYLI 4154

RFC P201666

RAF 405756

 

Mark1959 -- you have found him. His service record under RAF 405756 shows next of kin as John White, 30 Westfield Road, Horbury. The 1911 Census shows Fred White (age 12 years) with his parents John and Alice living at 30 Westfield Road, Horbury.

EDIT: Should have added that the record shows 30 Westfield Road as his address on discharge.

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Allan1892

[Mark1959]

RAF record for above man gives father as John, 30 Westfield Rd, Horbury. By inference he claimed to be 19y and 4m old on attestation on 9/1/15 - so considerbly older than was or looked. To RFC 17/10/17 and RAF on inception 1/4/18. Extended for 2 years and discharged 16/2/21. Back of RAF records says France 11/12/17 to 16/8/19

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Mark1959

[Matlock1418]

10 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

Mark1959 -- you have found him. His service record under RAF 405756 shows next of kin as John White, 30 Westfield Road, Horbury. The 1911 Census shows Fred White (age 12 years) with his parents John and Alice living at 30 Westfield Road, Horbury.

EDIT: Should have added that the record shows 30 Westfield Road as his address on discharge.

Yes, that now looks better than my offering of possible brothers: Clifford Oakes WHITE and Henry Rushforth WHITE of Stringers Yard, High Street, Horbury = possibly cousins??

I leave it to others, should they wish, to explore that potential option.

M

[Mark1959]

Lets see what Arthur S has to say.

Forgot to say welcome Arthur to the forum. We need your conformation that we are on the right track. 

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Mark1959

[Arthur S]

I will forward that information to my mother in law she lives in Australia so might take a while with the info I will let you guys know if I have any new information from her 

 

Another picture of Fred 

[gareth morris]

There is something written bottom right of the group photo. Any chance of a clearer scan. 

[Matlock1418]

57 minutes ago, Arthur S said:

 

Another picture of Fred 

That's an interesting cap badge - I've struggled with it [but not that uncommon really!]. Was musing on the idea that it might perhaps be an early RAF one, but ... ???

We likely need help from the sorts of @Michelle Young @FROGSMILE or @CorporalPunishment These mentions should bring to their attention.

@FROGSMILE is likely to be able to help with his attire.

As a matter of interest how do you know it is Fred? - Is anything written on the back? - and if so, Who wrote it? and When?  Backs of photos can help.

M

[FROGSMILE]

 It’s R.A.F.  All brass and initially a junior officers badge in April 1918, but quickly switched to warrant officers of 1st class, with the commissioned officer ranks all having bullion wire with a small, superimposed gilt eagle, or three completely separate parts in gilt metal on a padded black cloth background. 

Edited 11 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s R.A.F.

Thanks FS

M

[FROGSMILE]

On 08/05/2022 at 20:52, Matlock1418 said:

Thanks FS

M

Looking at the rest of the uniform it’s clearly a warrant officer 1st class.  The giveaways are the leather gaiters and the fact that at that early stage the junior officers had either one (2nd Lt and Lt) or two (Capt) vertical bars either side of their bullion cap badges.  This was the stage when army style ranks were still being used.

Edited 10 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

Looking at the rest of the uniform it’s clearly a warrrant officer.

Again thanks - do you have a period for that style?  And for the cap badge?

M

Edited 8 May , 2022 by Matlock1418
cap badge

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Again thanks - do you have a period for that style?  And for the cap badge?

M

1918-19 from memory, but I’d have to check references to be precise to a specific date.  Very early on as explained.

Edited 8 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, Arthur S said:

I found a picture with his battalion 

These are KOYLI.  King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.  Several of them are signallers and shoulder title indicates Territorial Force.

Edited 8 May , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Arthur S]

3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

These are KOYLI.

Thanks for all the information 

Do you know this from the badges? 

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

1918-19 from memory, but I’d have to check references to be precise to a specific date.  Very early on as explained.

Just wondering if the young lad, born 1898 & enlisting 1913/14, could have reached that rank in the RAF by the end of the war ???

His KOYLI/RFC/RAF MIC shows RAF, ACM1, 405756.

Just wondering ???

M

[Arthur S]

4 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

RAF record for above man gives father as John, 30 Westfield Rd, Horbury. By inference he claimed to be 19y and 4m old on attestation on 9/1/15 - so considerbly older than was or looked. To RFC 17/10/17 and RAF on inception 1/4/18. Extended for 2 years and discharged 16/2/21. Back of RAF records says France 11/12/17 to 16/8/19

You might be on to something Mate my MIL just said the mother might be Alice