Mart Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 Hi , can anyone help please . I have a North Staffs majors jacket with rank insignia on the cuffs , which is quite normal . The colour on the other hand is almost yellow with orange edges , does anyone know why. Could they be ceremonial? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Mart said: Hi , can anyone help please . I have a North Staffs majors jacket with rank insignia on the cuffs , which is quite normal . The colour on the other hand is almost yellow with orange edges , does anyone know why. Could they be ceremonial? Thanks in advance. If you could post a photo it would help. In general the drab woollen worsted tape from which the rank was formed does sometimes change colour over a long period depending upon the ambient temperature, humidity and airtightness within which it is stored. In general the colour fastness of dyes was not good In Britain at that time. Before the war new dyes produced in Germany by such companies as IG Farben had broken through with new chemical dyes that the British government, including the War Office had purchased, but the outbreak of war had naturally upset some of the supply and alternatives had to be resorted to. As a result not all the drab tape supplied was identical in every respect. Even the black mohair tape used on antique Foot Guards frock coats can turn orange or tan over time. Edited 9 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 21 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: If you could post a photo it would help. In general the drab woollen worsted tape from which the rank was formed does sometimes change colour over a long period depending upon the ambient temperature, humidity and airtightness within which it is stored. In general the colour fastness of dyes was not good In Britain at that time. Before the war new dyes produced in Germany by such companies as IG Farben had broken through with new chemical dyes that the British government, including the War Office had purchased, but the outbreak of war had naturally upset some of the supply and alternatives had to be resorted to. As a result not all the drab tape supplied was identical in every respect. Even the black mohair tape used on antique Foot Guards frock coats can turn orange or tan over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Mart said: It appears to me to be a typical herringbone type tape that has a slightly unusual shade that appears to have been emphasised over time. The tailoring and stitching of the rank is very crude though and certainly not done by a high quality tailor (military outfitter). It’s not impossible that the jacket originates from a theatrical costumer where the detail was less important given that it was to be either, filmed from a distance, or observed only on a stage. What other provenance do you have for the jacket? Is there are name tag inside as most bespoke garments had one originally? NB. The colour of the slash (patch on which the crown sits) also doesn’t look as if it’s the exact same khaki shade as the jacket itself, which it should ordinarily be. Otherwise it suggests a retro fitting. Edited 9 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 I'm certain it's a reproduction jacket and as you say very crudly sewn , but the rank insignia appears original . But thanks for getting back to me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Mart said: I'm certain it's a reproduction jacket and as you say very crudly sewn , but the rank insignia appears original . But thanks for getting back to me . I think that from what you’ve described the rank was made up using herringbone tape (provided to quartermasters departments on reels) and a genuine crown, but it’s been very poorly done. I enclose photos of genuine examples. Edited 9 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 Yes I think the crown on mine looks original and the tape looks to well made to be repro , but very badly sewn . I have a another repro jacket , Soldier of Fortune , which is pretty good and just needed rank insignia to complete it . I do trench tours at my local museum and want a uniform to wear whilst taking groups round . I may have to buy there insignia which is OK but nothing like original . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 3 hours ago, Mart said: Yes I think the crown on mine looks original and the tape looks to well made to be repro , but very badly sewn . I have a another repro jacket , Soldier of Fortune , which is pretty good and just needed rank insignia to complete it . I do trench tours at my local museum and want a uniform to wear whilst taking groups round . I may have to buy there insignia which is OK but nothing like original . I hope that you practise tieing your puttees and fastening your [preferably polished and brassed up] Sam Browne belt to go with your ensemble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 Most definatly .*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 13 minutes ago, Mart said: Most definatly .*** Why dress as an officer, rather than as a soldier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 Purley because that's the uniform that's available at the museum I volunteer at , normally I am Home Guard . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 8 minutes ago, Mart said: Purley because that's the uniform that's available at the museum I volunteer at , normally I am Home Guard . If you’re interested in obtaining your own personal outfit from the likes of Soldier of Fortune perhaps you might find a soldier’s uniform more accessible and a little easier to get accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 9 October , 2022 Share Posted 9 October , 2022 Yes your probably correct , it will be nice to wear an officers uniform for a change though . The museum is holding a day and night in the trenches event on the 29th Oct , I will be able to sit in the officers dugout . *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Further to my recent post , I have decided to go for Captain so need to know tge correct size of sew on cuff pips . Its become a bit if a minefield to be honest . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 (edited) The OSD Bath stars were 1.25inches, or 30mm wide to each of the 4 points when measured diagonally. The rank stars were stamped out of sheet metal and so loops were virtually on the ends of two opposing points and only slightly set back. Loop to loop would be 25mm. Cloth stars were simpler but still 30mm point to point. Edited 31 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 Many thanks for that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Mart said: Many thanks for that . 1.25” in the documentation of the time. Contemporary Army Air Corps pattern cloth pips (rank stars) from service dress work very well. Edited 31 October , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart Posted 31 October , 2022 Share Posted 31 October , 2022 3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: 1.25” in the documentation of the time. Thanks again . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Snaffles Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 On 31/10/2022 at 16:37, FROGSMILE said: 1.25” in the documentation of the time. Contemporary Army Air Corps pattern cloth pips (rank stars) from service dress work very well. Could you share an image of the contemporary Army Air Corps pattern cloth stars, FROGSMILE? I have been curious about the original color of the interior parts of the star on original Great War cloth examples. Some examples of originals seem faded gold, others faded khaki. Was there a standard? Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Yankee Snaffles said: Could you share an image of the contemporary Army Air Corps pattern cloth stars, FROGSMILE? I have been curious about the original color of the interior parts of the star on original Great War cloth examples. Some examples of originals seem faded gold, others faded khaki. Was there a standard? Many thanks! I think that the drab colours intended to be used were consistently described, but unlike now there were not universally agreed coded patterns of thread and so there were variations between suppliers to the military outfitters. In general the central cross feature on each star should be a darker and so contrasting shade of “drab” (brownish khaki). Here (uppermost) are the contemporary Army Air Corps stars as used on service dress only (the backing is not yellow, but a pale shade of khaki). Cloth stars are less often seen on service dress now with most regiments/corps opting for metal. Rank stars on other forms of dress nowadays tend to be slides and pips machine made all in one piece. Ergo the AAC cloth stars are convenient as similar to WW1 styles. And here are a range of rank stars from WW1. Edited 9 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Your last but one photo, Frog, (the Major) looks somewhat unusual? It`s unlike all the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, PhilB said: Your last but one photo, Frog, (the Major) looks somewhat unusual? It`s unlike all the rest. It’s a Scottish Pattern, cutaway jacket cuff, Phil. Edited 9 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 9 November , 2022 Share Posted 9 November , 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Snaffles Posted 10 November , 2022 Share Posted 10 November , 2022 Thank you, FROGSMILE, for the information and great photographs of examples. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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